GamerGate thread

[Vandalhart]

Now now. I'm legitimately seeking a serious answer because when it comes to talking sexism in video games, the dialogue always seems to be centered on what gaming does wrong, not what it gets right. This leads me to think that maybe the critics don't think that ANY female in gaming has ever been done correctly. If that's true, I'd love to have an idea of what a by-females for-females lead would look like, because when you discount Zelda, Metroid, Lara and Bayonetta I'm out of ideas of sex-positive, fem-positive role models.

The new Zelda iteration in Hyrule Warriors seemed to be a good balance, at least in my eyes, of what I think some folks are looking for in a strong female lead. She's clothed, she fights for herself, and she's not overly sexual. Unless I'm missing something, I think she's a positive version.

[thetruepandagod]

Young men look up to rock stars and pro wrestlers. Who are we to judge the validity of someone else's role model? I'm not arguing against the reasoning, I want to know what, specifically, dictates a female game and female character, as approved by The Female concept.

A person with a brain? I see nothing wrong with judging someone who looks up to paris hilton or chingy as opposed to anyone else. And you won't get an answer because there is no actual cohesive view on what feminists as a whole want in games.

[Joyo]

No, I don't think the cover impacted the sales.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news...st-of-Us-Cover

Well apparently some people at Sony thought it would sell less. Bioshock Infinite had a similar story i think and thats why Elizabeth is not on the main cover.

There are so many reason why a game doesnt sell well like install base, price, story, gameplay, graphic, bugs, marketing, budget, release date etc that i dont think having a male or female protagonist really matters or if there is a woman on the cover.

[Lyall]

A person with a brain? I see nothing wrong with judging someone who looks up to paris hilton or chingy as opposed to anyone else. And you won't get an answer because there is no actual cohesive view on what feminists as a whole want in games.

Judging who is an entirely different bag than judging what, though. I didn't say girls shouldn't look up to anyone specific. If someone says their ideal role model is Al Bundy, then yeah, you've got a damn good picture of that person's mentality. Same for Chingy or Paris. Saying no one should look up to models/actresses/musicians is dumb. Similarly, if someone finds a video game character they like, why not have someone want to grow up and be like that person? Books and movies get that all the time.

[thetruepandagod]

I'm legitimately seeking a serious answer because when it comes to talking sexism in video games, the dialogue always seems to be centered on what gaming does wrong, not what it gets right.

The problem is that the voice of feminism has progressed past their buy power in video games.

Until women become a big enough buying force in video games the free market will dictate more of what we have seen for the last 20 years in games. Essentially any game company now that puts feminism as the prime focus of it's game will be punished will low sales because the people clamoring for it aren't the ones buying it.

Similarly, if someone finds a video game character they like, why not have someone want to grow up and be like that person?

In the 25+ years of gaming i have never identified with any character other than one i created in ffxi.

Is identifying with the main character a precursor to a game being good? Because i love shadow of colossus and the MC might as well have been a cardboard dummy.

I would rather you guys focus on why games like LoL are able to have a 50/50 gender split as opposed to other games. Is it because it is casual? multiple female choices? multiple gender neutral choices? free? ease of access? And if those things are a reason what makes it so that there are infinitely fewer women playing Dota2?

[wipers]

The problem is that the voice of feminism has progressed past their buy power in video games.

Until women become a big enough buying force in video games the free market will dictate more of what we have seen for the last 20 years in games. Essentially any game company now that puts feminism as the prime focus of it's game will be punished will low sales because the people clamoring for it aren't the ones buying it.



In the 25+ years of gaming i have never identified with any character other than one i created in ffxi.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the whole point of playing a video game escaping reality ? Why would I want to relate to a video game character ?

Granted some video games are more like movies Heavy Rain The Last of Us but most of the characters are far from believable.

To think the developers think about whether they portray positive role models or not I'm afraid I got some bad news for you...

[thetruepandagod]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the whole point of playing a video game escaping reality ? Why would I want to relate to a video game character ?

Granted some video games are more like movies Heavy Rain The Last of Us but most of the characters are far from believable.

To think the developers think about whether they portray positive role models or not I'm afraid I got some bad news for you...

I hope that was to lyall because i don't think they should be positive or negative role models, they should only be interesting or a tool to help show me an interesting story.

[wipers]

I hope that was to lyall because i don't think they should be positive or negative role models, they should only be interesting or a tool to help show me an interesting story.

I agree with story part. It was I'm just puzzled by the role model situation. Maybe I'm old and out of touch but none of my role models came from video games.

I see a lot of women at my local Gamestop but I couldn't tell you for the life of me if they are feminists or not I'd just say gamers.

I don't know any women in real life that take their personal views (feminism) and project them to video games.

[RKenshin]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...e-protagonists

Did everyone miss that part?
Seems pretty obvious to me why games with female leads sell less than male only.
Remember Me sold like shit because it was a bad game.

What are you implying? That the marketing budget should reflect something other than the sales projections? That all these companies would rather continue to oppress women than make money? That they're purposefully ignoring data/hidden markets/strategies that could make them more money, just to keep the women down? Or that this is some hidden, cash-cow that no company has sought to even try to capture?

This all comes back to the same exact thing that started this debate - seeking that which maximizes profits.

It also noted that this may be based off of marketing but that ignores gameplay ala demons souls. Where the game got little to no marketing and has lead to being a hit with the gaming community.

And this is exactly the opportunity that is available for a game 'targeted to women', but it has never happened. There is no 'hit game' that women flocked to in droves (note: not talking about apps) to provide evidence to motivate publishers to consider that market over its current target.

Until that happens, it really isn't going to change. You're asking a for-profit industry to ignore their target market.

[Lyall]

The problem is that the voice of feminism has progressed past their buy power in video games.

Until women become a big enough buying force in video games the free market will dictate more of what we have seen for the last 20 years in games. Essentially any game company now that puts feminism as the prime focus of it's game will be punished will low sales because the people clamoring for it aren't the ones buying it.

I completely agree with you. I'm waiting for Maz or Hey to tell us why we're wrong and sexist, though.

In the 25+ years of gaming i have never identified with any character other than one i created in ffxi.

Is identifying with the main character a precursor to a game being good? Because i love shadow of colossus and the MC might as well have been a cardboard dummy.

Depends on who you ask. I've identified with a few characters but usually in choose-your-plot games with dialogue choices reflecting "my" voice, which is just an immersion trick. But again, I'm sure this is somehow minimizing female voices or their plight and is just sexism, numbers be damned.

Why is anyone shocked that 18-24 year old predominately white males want to play as 24-30 year old predominately white males?

Please don't cite the 47% bullshit stat.

[wipers]

I will say that that Ubisoft saying they couldn't have made a female Assassin for Unity because it would cost/take too much time is major bullshit.

[Lyall]

In hindsight, mentioning role models was a dumb idea. I was just trying to reference something non-objectionable that is somehow pro-female but not sexist. Remember, this is the same mob that said Samus didn't count because she was "basically a man."

RKenshin nailed it, though.

[thetruepandagod]

Make more games for women, and more women will start playing games. Seems pretty simple to me.

I would also like an answer to what makes a game for women? I have never once played a zelda game in my life and all of my female friends have and are huge fans yet at the same time if you watch the feminist tropes video she appears to be hugely against games like that for having a damsel in distress. All my female friends also loved poke'mon since back in the day when misty and nurse joy/cop lady were the only females in the whole show/game.

[wipers]

Instead of focusing on men vs women characters etc I rather people(developers) just focus on making good games. (looking at you endless sequels and re makes)

[thetruepandagod]

I am going to go ahead and say that there is no "for men" or "for women" games unless you stereotype the gender and paint them in black and white so i don't really know why i want a reply.

The equivalent of the past few pages would be me whining about the lack of white people in tyler perry movies without ever planning on watching one.

[wipers]

And video game developers never stereotype we all know this.

[Koul]

Instead of focusing on men vs women characters etc I rather people(developers) just focus on making good games. (looking at you endless sequels and re makes)

But then what would people like Anita bitch about?

[Lyall]

The equivalent of the past few pages would be me whining about the lack of white people in tyler perry movies without ever planning on watching one.

DING DING DING DING DING DING DING

[wipers]

But then what would people like Anita bitch about?

Don't worry feminism knows no bounds. It is hard for me to be objective because of white male privilege.

[Koul]

also part 2 of GWW came out