GamerGate thread

[thetruepandagod]

I think men and women generally tend to put different weights on different things.

I think it's pretty well established that men and women generally have different tastes.

This is the kind of sexist thinking keeping women out of STEM.

The gender of a character in a fighting game, or moba is clearly irrelevant. They could just all be dittos from pokemon, and it would change nothing. The gender isn't important in any way at all.

What is Tekken 7 and lucky chloe? What is dead or alive? Feminist interest in fighting games is pretty well documented. Moba's on the other hand are not off the top of my head. What specifically about moba's makes the gender irrelevant though? Would it be acceptable for games to loophole their main characters by either making them sexless aliens with either masculine/feminine traits depending on what they originally wanted to convey with the main character? For example where would a FF11 galka figure into this, they were clearly masculine but reproduced through eggs or some shit and had no females? Do they still count as male? What if the uncharted guy looked and acted the same but his backstory said that he was a robot?

[hey]

This is the kind of sexist thinking keeping women out of STEM.

How is it sexist to admit that men and women aren't identical?

[wipers]

We wouldn't have a Pac-man without Ms. Pac-man.

Ladies and gentlemen this is equality:


http://www.rankopedia.com/CandidatePix/129951.gif

[Charismatic]

How is it sexist to admit that men and women aren't identical?

[hey]

Uh, okay.

[wipers]

So because men and women are different what was the point again ?

[RKenshin]

How is it sexist to admit that men and women aren't identical?

If it's not sexist in nature for men and women to be different, then how is it implicitly sexist when those differences effect how each are viewed/treated?

Discrimination of all forms is more than just different treatment, it's different treatment with bad/immoral/illegal/degrading/unfair intentions. It's not sexist of me to assume that a women might not be interested/knowledgable in discussing last night's soccer game, just on the basis that it's a low statistical chance. It might be sexist if it was on the basis of not wanting to hear a woman's opinion, or if I thought that women wouldn't understand sports.

But, everyone wants to simplify discrimination as different treatment and nothing more than that, because including that second bad/immoral/illegal/etc part ads subjectivity and makes the whole issue more complicated. It doesn't make good headlines either, or play into the sensationalism of media that we all consume on some level. So instead of 'Publisher turns down game that it doesn't believe will properly hit its target audience' (even on the chance that was 100% known to be the honest reason) we will keep getting stuff like 'Publisher turns down game because they hate women', and we all waste time arguing about it as if everything is as simple as making all decisions 50/50 across the board.

[wipers]

I don't know the people that make/play COD might just in fact hate women...(joking but could be taken seriously)

I seriously doubt developers of COD/GTA and other heavily male geared games care if women play them.

[RKenshin]

Suppose it depends what age boys these days transition from "ewww girls, cooties! hate girls!" to the "whoa, girls!" outlook. If it's anytime during/after 10-12 then it's bad news for the COD world.

[wipers]

Suppose it depends what age boys these days transition from "ewww girls, cooties! hate girls!" to the "whoa, girls!" outlook. If it's anytime during/after 10-12 then it's bad news for the COD world.

That is a good point. I don't remember what age I hit the whoa girls but I'm sure I stopped caring about games for quite a while.

[hey]

If it's not sexist in nature for men and women to be different, then how is it implicitly sexist when those differences effect how each are viewed/treated?

It's not necessarily.

Discrimination of all forms is more than just different treatment, it's different treatment with bad/immoral/illegal/degrading/unfair intentions. It's not sexist of me to assume that a women might not be interested/knowledgable in discussing last night's soccer game, just on the basis that it's a low statistical chance. It might be sexist if it was on the basis of not wanting to hear a woman's opinion, or if I thought that women wouldn't understand sports.

Yes, i agree.

But, everyone wants to simplify discrimination as different treatment and nothing more than that, because including that second bad/immoral/illegal/etc part ads subjectivity and makes the whole issue more complicated. It doesn't make good headlines either, or play into the sensationalism of media that we all consume on some level. So instead of 'Publisher turns down game that it doesn't believe will properly hit its target audience' (even on the chance that was 100% known to be the honest reason) we will keep getting stuff like 'Publisher turns down game because they hate women', and we all waste time arguing about it as if everything is as simple as making all decisions 50/50 across the board.

Who is everyone? Because i sure don't. I don't think there is really a problem with not wanting to publish a game you don't think will sell well. That's fine. But if you think it won't sell well as is, and that it will if you change the gender of the main character, that's sexist. Even if it's true, it shouldn't be suggested. Just tell them you're not interested, and move on.

People are different. Treating them as if they are not, is itself a form of sexism/racism/etc.

[RKenshin]

It was a very general everyone, probably more pointed at news/media and the way these events are portrayed than anything.

I agree with some of your parts but disagree with one in particular, but think that we're just seeing this differently... so I'll leave it at that. Fundamental difference.

[Lyall]

I don't know how this is relevant to anything, but i haven't paid for a game in a long time, because just about every cent i get goes towards my survival.

The problem is that the voice of feminism has progressed past their buy power in video games.

Until women become a big enough buying force in video games the free market will dictate more of what we have seen for the last 20 years in games. Essentially any game company now that puts feminism as the prime focus of it's game will be punished will low sales because the people clamoring for it aren't the ones buying it.

You're not a customer. You didn't contribute to Remember Me's sales, you didn't make the company any money. You are literally the reason why people won't back their new game. If you don't buy the game, you don't get to cry sexism when the game you didn't buy doesn't sell.

[Lucavi]

^ Reminds me of casting all whites for that stupid Moses movie and the whitest woman around for Ghost in the Shell.

I'm sure they (big hollywood) has actual numbers and metrics to point out to justify that movies without white protags don't sell, but offhand, someone provide some examples in here. To be specific, a movie that didn't have an astronomical budget (thus requiring 500m in profits just to break even), was actually well written/directed/acted, didn't have obligatory white dude/chick as the leads and sold like absolute horseshit in the states.

I'm not much of a movie guy (well... theatres anyway) so they aren't getting my money into this "I NEED A WHITE GUY" reality, so I can't really draw any specifics.

[archibaldcrane]

Plenty of Will Smith and Denzel Washington movies do great at the box office - but they have no hispanic, middle eastern or Asian contemporaries.

[NynJa]

If you don't buy the game, you don't get to cry sexism when the game you didn't buy doesn't sell.

WAIT WAIT
Did someone actually suggest that by not buying a product that "denounces sexual oppression", that person is inherently sexist?

[archibaldcrane]

No?

[hey]

You're not a customer. You didn't contribute to Remember Me's sales, you didn't make the company any money. You are literally the reason why people won't back their new game. If you don't buy the game, you don't get to cry sexism when the game you didn't buy doesn't sell.

Some of my friends bought it after i talked about it so...try again.

[NynJa]

Some of my friends bought it after i talked about it so...try again.

How many went on to say "woe this is really an amazing game, and it was made so much better by having a female lead"?

[BaneTheBrawler]

Let's get back to gamergate/sexism in the industry and away from Hey pirating games.