GamerGate thread

[Tyrath]

How many casuals play WoW though? Is that 37% the actual active playerbase, or from day 1 including dead accounts?

Doesn't matter, as has been said before the # of female characters is entirely a useless stat because tons of guys play females.

[Melena]

How many casuals play WoW though? Is that 37% the actual active playerbase, or from day 1 including dead accounts?

Probably not as I believe they use armory to get the data and I think it's six months of being deactivated you can't find a toon on armory.

[Lyall]

I have absolutely no desire to join that thread - I purposely have not followed it because I don't know what's going on, I can't get a straight answer from a non-biased source, and the thread is an absolute cesspool of garbage.

I...

But... you said you didn't...

...well, okay. If you don't know what's going on, you won't ask, and you've already written it off as a "cesspool" I guess it's okay to just opt-out of discussions. That doesn't look judgmental or anything at all.

Most of us here want to discuss the issues at hand, not just bitch about womyn and the like. S'cool, though, you keep doin' you.

[Aksannyi]

(My post was moved into this thread by Bane. I didn't want to join the discussion).

I misread the link I posted, that was my bad - but I still do not want to join this particular discussion or become involved in it, so as of this post I will recuse myself from this thread.

[BaneTheBrawler]

I moved her post here.

[Lyall]

Yeah, I inferred that. Was more questioning the "I don't know what it is, I won't ask what it is, but I've decided it is most certainly bad" kind of pre-screening. It's anathema to discourse and the sort of stonewalling, fingers-in-the-ears lalalala-I-can't-hear-you that most people respond with when Gamergate comes up.

Edit: Amusingly, this is what I was talking about when the idea of the "Gamergate brand" came up some pages ago. It's not held in good light. Recent pages, though, have been more on point about discussing pressures from press and developers to change things, or more to the heart of the matter, bloggers calling themselves journalists openly hiding conflicts of interest to push their friends/wives' projects.

[#686578]

I have absolutely no desire to join that thread - I purposely have not followed it because I don't know what's going on, I can't get a straight answer from a non-biased source, and the thread is an absolute cesspool of garbage.

Spoiler: show

Despite my reputation I'm going to say this anyway.

I know you dont care to get involved but I'm hoping I can clear one thing up: There are no "non-biased sources" on this. Taking this into Godwin's Law, it's basically Hitler. Everyone has an opinion on it, the only people who are unbiased either have zero knowledge or want to play Switzerland for fear of getting attacked by either side. Which side is Hitler is purely opinion.

[Karbuncle]

I guarantee you more women are playing COD or HALO than you think, they just don't make it known. Why? Because they get harassed and told to make sandwiches. Shit gets old.

Mmm, I'm sure this kind of thing happens to some type of women. But, men have to keep that kind of stuff quiet too to certain people, we learn when and when not to discuss vidya games. Also, for the subject of women in CoD/Halo. I wouldn't be surprised if theres a good number of women who play it. I've seen FPS all girl teams and such in tournaments. They're pretty good players too.

Idk if I could clarify the subject of female "Gamers", as I think that those who play facebook games never really consider themselves "Gamers", its like playing Solitaire to them, they don't really consider them video games like we might consider a Triple A title. So its mostly semantics but these studies don't usually take into account difference in type of games. I mean, if my grandma boots up her computer and play virtual Solitaire every so often, which is a video game by some standards, is she a ~70 year old gamer? Thats why I don't like relying on any of these "but these stats say X% of women are gamers!", because when it comes down to it, I imagine the majority of those women if questioned would not identify as a gamer for any real purpose, or have any understanding of games outside of iconic ones (Mario, etc)...

Anyway, IDK ... which thread this original came from so... yah... I got nothing else.

[NynJa]

They "should" define what qualifies as a game as per their screening, or break the pie charts down into fremium and retail/steam games.

[Xantavia]

Spoiler: show

Despite my reputation I'm going to say this anyway.

I know you dont care to get involved but I'm hoping I can clear one thing up: There are no "non-biased sources" on this. Taking this into Godwin's Law, it's basically Hitler. Everyone has an opinion on it, the only people who are unbiased either have zero knowledge or want to play Switzerland for fear of getting attacked by either side. Which side is Hitler is purely opinion.

I find it more a problem about still not knowing what gamergate even is. Is it ethics in journalism or feminism in gaming. I have never been able to keep straight what the arguments are focusing on, or what each side even stands for.

[Karbuncle]

Gamergate began as and has been about "ethics in gaming journalism". The only reason feminist like Anita and Brianu Wu are even brought up is because they essentially threw themselves into it because I guess they were running out of was to play the victim. But the media seems to think its about feminism because they're all lambasted dumbshit. Just rest easy knowing its about the above.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF5a5IgbuYk

This video and part 2 go into it a bit.

Also this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXOhN2u5wtY

[Gredival]

I find it more a problem about still not knowing what gamergate even is. Is it ethics in journalism or feminism in gaming. I have never been able to keep straight what the arguments are focusing on, or what each side even stands for.

It started as an issue of ethics, regarding whether or not Zoe Quinn had exchanged sexual favors for positive reviews. Even though the initial allegations of favoritism were disproven and turned out to be concocted by Zoe Quinn's ex-boyfriend (from what I know at least), there actually has been a lot of other stuff has happened as a direct result of the scrutiny cast on the industry as a result of GamerGate. In particular, lots of sites lost advertising partners and had to update their code of conduct etc.

The feminism stuff was something interjected into the matter because Sarkeesian saw the outpouring of hate for Quin as a reflection of embedded general misogyny in the industry (which she had previously already addressed in Tropes v. Women). Per usual, wherever Sarkeensian goes there's a shitstorm. After one of her appearances to speak at a University regarding the issue had to be canceled due to threats of violence, the mainstream media began reporting on it purely as a matter of misogyny against women in the gaming industry. The mainstream media had, and still has, absolutely no clue who Zoe Quinn was or the "ethics in journalism" controversy.

At this point, I think GamerGate is legitimately about both issues just because of how ingrained the feminism/violence controversy has become. And that itself irritates the "ethics" side because they don't want anything to do with that debate at all. But their insistence of "Actually, it's about ethics in game journalism," is interpreted by (some) feminists as a general denial of any sexism in the industry, and an unwillingness to solve that problem.

[#686578]

I find it more a problem about still not knowing what gamergate even is. Is it ethics in journalism or feminism in gaming. I have never been able to keep straight what the arguments are focusing on, or what each side even stands for.

Pro-Gamers argue it's ethics in games journalism. Zoe Quinn sleeping around isnt the issue. Anita injecting her feminism into the industry isnt the issue. Brianna Wu ... doing whatever it is Brianna Wu does isnt the issue. The main issue is that Zoe, Anita, are people who are producing things. They're making something to be sold. They're connected with people who write reviews. Consumers count on those reviews to make "educated" purchasing decisions. It's not unfair to claim that your average consumer will make an effort to educate themselves before parting with their hard earned cash. The issue is that these journalists have prior relationships with the subjects of their journalism. This has always been considered a conflict of interest. A "connection" can be many things, it could be what otherwise would be construed as merely a professional acquaintance, often times it's a long term friendship going back years, and sometimes it's even a financial connection (journalists funding their kickstarters or vice versa).

Anti-Gamers are claiming harassment, misogyny, et cetera. They claim that the Gamergate movement started because Zoe Quinn was doing something seen as anti-feminine; that gamers are attacking her because she stepped outside of their misogynistic expectations. They claim that the Gamergate movement is about silencing feminism in all forms. They claim that "Gamers" are dead. That "Gamers" are only cis white men. They claim any people who come up that don't fit their narrative are sock puppets, trolls, or internalizing misogyny/racism (this leads into #NotYourShield).

At the end of the day you should ask yourself what is the basic makeup of each side and who is benefiting:
-Anti-Gamers have business a business. They're profiting off this publicity. The large players on their side of the court have patreons, kick starters, (charity[?]) businesses, and so on. They FINANCIALLY GAIN from both A) the controversy and B) having corrupt games journalism to further their agendas.
-Gamers are a massive collection of the common masses. Your every day people from all walks of life. #NotYourShield has provably demonstrated that people from all walks of life are contributing to the effort, that it's not just cis-gendered white males. Thousands of the people who purchase and play video games are finally taking a stand against what we've all suspected for a long time. It was not uncommon for people to talk about how IGN/Metacritic/Whatever review site was being paid for reviews, was unbiased, or whatever. These are common people with no benefit for having the controversy, no financial gain, no business gain, no personal relationship to the industry. Their only gain is perhaps someday they can finally read a review for a game and IF the reviewer happens to have some connection with the developer they disclose that information so that they as a consumer can take that into account on IF the article is biased.

[#686578]

The only reason "feminism" or "SJWs" are brought into this at all are because "feminists" ran to the aid of Zoe Quinn after the first debacle. This was further exacerbated by the blast of "Gamers are dead" articles that came from known SJWs.

Spoiler: show

For those who don't know Social Justice Warrior (SJW) is a pejorative that stems from Keyboard Warriors, those people who seek to resolve by conflict rather than dialog. These are the people who get offended, loud, angry, brash--emotional--rather than use logic. Social Justice Warriors are the "Social Justice" brand of keyboard warriors.

SJWs are attempting to appropriate it as feminists originally tried to appropriate slut and turn that into something known to be positive. Look at how that's going.

[#686578]

There have been several attempts to summarize Gamergate from the pro-Gamers community. This is just one, #GamerGate in 60 Seconds.


Anti-Gamers to my knowledge do not have a 60 second or similar short summary of what the "GamerGate" controversy is other than something akin to "A misogynistic harassment campaign led by cis white male virgins".

[#686578]

You may have noticed that I used the term "Anti-Gamer" rather than "Anti-GamerGater", "Feminists", or other such terms. This is deliberate. The people who have identified themselves as opposed to the GamerGate movement have demonstrated time and time again starting with the "Gamers Are Dead" articles and consistently attack anyone who identifies as a "Gamer" ever since.

http://wiki.gamergate.me/index.php?t..._Dead#Articles

[Lyall]

I guarantee you more women are playing COD or HALO than you think, they just don't make it known. Why? Because they get harassed and told to make sandwiches. Shit gets old.

I somehow overlook this line, and while I know Aks isn't coming back here, it's worth pointing out:

Shit talk is designed to make you respond to it. The sorts of shit talk seen in shooters is meant to make you mad and throw you off of your game. Women get a lot of woman-centric stuff like making sandwiches and going back to the kitchen, and there's some nasty stuff about being raped and everything, too.

...but that's exactly what happens to everyone online. People make assumptions about you, and swing for the fences to make you angry. Male? You're a fag. You suck dicks, AND I fucked your mother. If you have the barest of accents or ethnicity when you speak up, expect to have every racial epithet in the dictionary lobbied at you, in addition to also chugging cocks and being raped.

EVERYONE gets shit talked online. Everyone. Women aren't special in this regard.

[Vandalhart]

Gamergate began as and has been about "ethics in gaming journalism". The only reason feminist like Anita and Brianu Wu are even brought up is because they essentially threw themselves into it because I guess they were running out of was to play the victim. But the media seems to think its about feminism because they're all lambasted dumbshit. Just rest easy knowing its about the above.



This video and part 2 go into it a bit.

Also this one:

Just a heads up, part 3 was jsut posted today:

[Teryu]

ADL is attempting to push Anita's video game agenda onto high school students.

http://www.adl.org/assets/pdf/educat...-boys-club.pdf

[Koul]

Is that one of those things where guest speakers come to schools and blather on about shit. If that's the case, pretty sure it won't really work. None of that shit did anything for me when I was in high school lol