GamerGate thread

[NynJa]

So you know it was only the feedback at blizzcon that influenced this, and nothing from social media, you must work at blizzard to have this insider info

[Clash Perez]

He seems to be operating on the same level of information that you are, so I dunno why his (misrepresented) conclusions are any less valid than yours.

Responding on mobile so I'm not going to bother trying to navigate splitting up your previous post to reply, but you asked me if I didn't think it was a coincidence about the timing of the release - barring some indication otherwise I don't see why I should expect it to be anything other than a coincidence.

You seem to be so far on the defensive about "SJW" intrusion into your vidyas that you're seeing it whether it's there or not. Point in case, the description about the outlaw: his back story reads like it's straight out of any of a hundred pulp western novels, with names changed to fit the Overwatch world, except that it's now suddenly some tirade against (or for? I'm not 100% clear) "SJW"s.

[NynJa]

The difference is I'm aware that everything I'm saying is potentially flawed and plucked from thought, and I'm willing to admit anything I'm saying could indeed be wrong since we are just going off on perception.

And it's entirely possible that I'm inferring more than I know (though I'm not).

He's not, he's actually 110% certain that what he's saying is fact.

[Clash Perez]

People are saying they should boycott the character. I'm saying that's stupid and instead they should camp whoever play her to really piss people off since it will cause a bigger splash.

This is just terrible. Take it out on the players who have the audacity to play a character who you've decided doesn't belong in the game because... because reasons?

[Talint]

So you know it was only the feedback at blizzcon that influenced this, and nothing from social media, you must work at blizzard to have this insider info

Does it matter if I do? And if feedback wasn't the only thing that influenced it, does that matter?

My point ("It's a business first, whatever is best for the business is what happens") goes in the opposite direction too. Ubisoft got into a lot of shit for explain why we won't see a female lead for Assassin's Creed in the future by these same "SJWs".

The studio "had to" cut female assassins from the co-op mode, Amancio explained in response to a question from Polygon's Ben Kuchera, because keeping them in would have doubled the cost of pretty much everything: "it's double the animations, double the voices, all that stuff, double the visual assets—especially because we have customizable assassins."

Making whatever proprietary engine Ubisoft has for Assassin's Creed games probably would require all of that. And that does, in fact, translate to a business decision. Developers having to spend more time to adjust animations and recode the engine costs money and time; something Ubisoft does not want to do.

It is, in fact, the business. The idea of a multi-billion dollar company throwing a bone to SJWs for no other reason than to placate them is an amusing thought, but it makes for bad business: There is nothing that makes it into the final product that is any sort of "giveaway". And you are not going to convince me the most successful developer on the planet makes a bad business decision.

He's not, he's actually 110% certain that what he's saying is fact.

I'm a video game developer in the Southern California area. All dev regions are somewhat insular, so everybody has/is friends at all the other studios. Everybody knows somebody at Blizzard, the biggest employer in the region.

[Ksandra]

I'm saying that's stupid and instead they should camp whoever play her to really piss people off since it will cause a bigger splash.

This is the dumbest suggestion yet, and I am not even sure how one would accomplish this in any way that anyone would actually notice it.

So you know it was only the feedback at blizzcon that influenced this, and nothing from social media, you must work at blizzard to have this insider info

You do realize Blizzard has been pretty vocal at being anti-GG from the getgo, right? You forget they also have high-level female devs who may very well know/are friends with people like Brianna Wu et. al.

If there was any influence, it probably came from their own team. Which is totally 100% justifiable.


Yet again, I ask you. Have you ever played this style of game before regularly?

[Charismatic]

This conversation is hilarious.

ayup

[Gokku]

But, hey, congrats on finding the one critic who might be a charlatan. I can lead you to other, better "SJWs" who have written poignant stuff about video games and race, and sexuality, and even gender identity that aren't as comical; all of whom I would give the "gamer" label.
.

If you could provide the above it would be awesome , the current face of video game SJW's is horrible, id love to see it from a different view.

[Qalbert]

Does it matter if I do? And if feedback wasn't the only thing that influenced it, does that matter?

My point ("It's a business first, whatever is best for the business is what happens") goes in the opposite direction too. Ubisoft got into a lot of shit for explain why we won't see a female lead for Assassin's Creed in the future by these same "SJWs".
Making whatever proprietary engine Ubisoft has for Assassin's Creed games probably would require all of that. And that does, in fact, translate to a business decision. Developers having to spend more time to adjust animations and recode the engine costs money and time; something Ubisoft does not want to do.

except the same article you linked has a Naughty Dog dev talking about how that was bullshit and would take "a day or two"... (which yes, technically even a small amount of work is still 'more work', but it's still a pretty shite example) (this is more me disliking Ubi's laziness than anything related to diversity or SJWs though, lol)

[Quicklet]

It's entirely possible that the publishing climate for Ubisoft was much stricter than it was for Naughty Dog. If you read about some of the milestones EA set for Simcity 5 and the inflexibility with regard to deadlines, a day or two of extra work would be disastrous for a game like that.

I definitely feel like that kind of stuff is studio-dependent, engine-dependent, game-dependent. It's also easier for an outsider / former employee to chime in and say "yeah, that's not really that much extra work" when they don't have to worry about pushback from executives who aren't really listening to the inputs of most of their employees to begin with.

[Qalbert]

oh if you played Unity it was pretty apparent that the game wasn't close to ready and they were just shaving off anything they could to try to get it out the door

[Quicklet]

Haven't played an Ubi game in years but I've seen and heard enough to know just how buggy they are these days, Unity especially.

[Talint]

If you could provide the above it would be awesome , the current face of video game SJW's is horrible, id love to see it from a different view.

Robert Yang's takes on homosexuality in video games are amusing, and often insightful (as a gay male, I may be biased).
Austin Walker's is always fantastic. (as a disclaimer he's a good friend of mine. Also I think this might be one of the best things he's ever written.)
Amy Dentata's sort of scattered, but I mostly enjoy her trans pieces the best.

except the same article you linked has a Naughty Dog dev talking about how that was bullshit and would take "a day or two"... (which yes, technically even a small amount of work is still 'more work', but it's still a pretty shite example) (this is more me disliking Ubi's laziness than anything related to diversity or SJWs though, lol)

I mean, in the Naughty Dog dev environment, maybe.

Even then, I would call bullshit. Even if it takes two days to do, you have to add QA testing to make sure such a departure from the norm works correctly.

Ubisoft's AC engine might do something insane like have hard coded references to animations/bones that would require some serious maintenance to fix. Not to mention additional female animations and so forth that they probably didn't have.

No, where Ubisoft's argument falls apart is that they're fucking Ubisoft. They can take the 4-6 week hit of development to adjust the engine if they really wanted to. As it turned out, the game was a shitty, buggy mess that wasn't even rendering females right anyway.

[NynJa]

Soooo, i'm not sure what you're saying, are you saying deadlines actually do exist, or are you gonna pull a chazzy and say they're bullshit?

[Ghost_Wheel22]

If you read about some of the milestones EA set for Simcity 5 and the inflexibility with regard to deadlines, a day or two of extra work would be disastrous for a game like that.

[chazzyphizzle]

Soooo, i'm not sure what you're saying, are you saying deadlines actually do exist, or are you gonna pull a chazzy and say they're bullshit?

keep my name out of your shit posts

[NynJa]

okay, you know what, you're right, you win.

I had a great post, but last time I took someones post and turned it on them, I got a 3 day ban, so its not worth it.

[Stef]

No, where Ubisoft's argument falls apart is that they're fucking Ubisoft. They can take the 4-6 week hit of development to adjust the engine if they really wanted to. As it turned out, the game was a shitty, buggy mess that wasn't even rendering females right anyway.

Yeah, I think this is most likely it. Just apply Hanlon's razor: never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. I don't think anyone would purposefully exclude female characters entirely from a game, especially in today's climate where people are scrutinizing these things closer and closer. I think I take Ubisoft at it's word here and think the Naught Dog dev's comments were a bit immature and irresponsible. Game development for a purely next-gen open-world game is more complex than the Kotaku article seems to give credit for. It probably would have taken a lot more work, but only because Ubisoft so badly bungled the project in the first place. It's pretty bad to not include female characters, but they didn't even get what they did add right.

[Qalbert]

pretty much, that being said I feel like in cases where appropriate allotting the resources to allow for more options in character customization/selection is seldom a bad thing. I'm not, nor was I ever intending to, saying that Ubi didn't allow women because omg misogyny, just that with the amount of money and staff they have on hand it wouldn't have actually been the nearly impossible hurdle they suggested, and not doing so (and their PR about it) was lazy/bad business. they make a big deal about customizing your own personal assassin for the co-op but then it's just Arno in different clothes, pretty disappointing. I was hoping for a robust character creator as the MP aspects didn't necessarily require a strong narrative focus.

[Brill Weave]

okay, you know what, you're right, you win.

I had a great post, but last time I took someones post and turned it on them, I got a 3 day ban, so its not worth it.

No you repeatedly harassed them after they hadn't posted in a thread for weeks. Don't use that for your excuse to cut and run.