Pope @ world. "God isn't magic"

[ringthree]

That's nice. That doesn't change the fact that catholics continue to hold on to a set of belief that in major parts are contradictory to scientific theories and reality. Remember that talking snake? Oh, you don't actually believe in that part of the bible? If you start cherry picking and say you don't actually buy into certain bits, then why the fuck follow the book at all?



No one said this, I just think it does more harm than it does good. Religious people can certainly be good and do many good things, but on the whole their doctrine is full of shitty things. Which again, makes me question why they cling so desperately to such a shitty and unproven set of ideas anyway.

Are you king of the logical fallacy or something? Most religious scholars (especially Catholics) have no problem saying that the Bible is not the exact word of God or that it isn't up for interpretation.

You are tilting at windmills.

[BaneTheBrawler]

so why is a PR move a bad thing? do you have a problem with all PR moves or just this one? If just this one, why? This is an honest attempt to make people aware of long-established policy, unlike many PR moves, which are all-too-often frail attempts to obfuscate or false promises of future policy change meant to placate people.

[SephYuyX]

Even though Roman Catholicism is a Christian denomination, it is a completly different sect. No one in their right mind associates with the crazies that are christians; you know someone is catholic the second you call them a christian, theyll be like, no no, im catholic, dont throw me in with them.

My entire extended family is catholic, been involved in the whole shabang my whole life, and not once were we taught the bible is literal. As mentioned catholics have been the lead on a lot of scientificy stuff, only the crazies will tell you otherwise. We are taught to take the teachings as VALUES and for their deeper meanings, not for face value. The bible was always a book meant to teach in simple means; God created the universe in 6 days. Maybe it's 6 of his days, which equal to 6000 of ours. On the 5th and 6th days he creates life, and through 2000 years of evolution, adam is created.

Ever think of it that way?

Pope John Paul II already said this yearssss ago, but it's nice to see the new pope get on the PR hype train to remind people that catholics are the normal people, not the people you see on tv waving around signs, or trying to debunk proven science. Basically.. if you hear about something crazy involving religion and it's in the media, good chance it's not catholic. Yeah, there are things like abortion and gay marriage, but a lot of that has a throw back in to the whole values thing. Something like.. people wouldnt need to have an abortion if they didnt make bad decisions and had better values. Rape, health concerns, and similiar? Of course abortion is fine in those cases. But, still wont go and protest, because thats fucking wierd.

Well.. there was also that one time during the crusades..

Talking snake? Oh, you mean temptation? Yes, we believe in tempatation.

In short, dont lump catholics in with the rest of the religous nut jobs.

[D44kpunk]

i like how you're saying it's a PR move like it's a bad thing. every organization ever has made PR moves, why should a church be different? i can never get past the logical blocks people have in their minds, you're just coming off as an idiot.

it either seems like most people hate religion so much they were gang bang by a group of renegade popes or they are brain washed crazy religious believe anything and everything next level gullible. there is no inbetween.

do your research, HINT read about father lemairte. the catholic church is the one that invented the ideas that atheists love to use against them.

[ringthree]

It's good PR. These tenets may have been status quo in terms of the giant rulebook but from this thread alone it's clear that people still don't know these things and that evolution / big bang / motherfucking science is accepted within the Catholic faith, even if some people disagree with the shoehorned in Jesus at the end of the equation.

Means you might sway some people back to church or pick up some new members. Nothing really controversial. Undercuts the ant-religious idea that all theists are nutballs who think dinosaurs were once pack animals or that the Grand Canyon was formed in about 5 minutes.

The Church has lost power so it has to play defensive until it regains its strength and becomes the corrupt, bloated organization from which Protestants sprung forth again. Sorry about sanctioning colonization, genocidal regimes and mass paranoia, yo.

Now, this my kind of criticism of the Catholic church!

[Tyrath]

Are you king of the logical fallacy or something? Most religious scholars (especially Catholics) have no problem saying that the Bible is not the exact word of God or that it isn't up for interpretation.

You are tilting at windmills.

Which is why I'm wondering why not abandon the whole thing completely seeing as it's full of inaccuracies and inconsistencies. What is the need for it?

so why is a PR move a bad thing? do you have a problem with all PR moves or just this one? If just this one, why? This is an honest attempt to make people aware of long-established policy, unlike many PR moves, which are all-too-often frail attempts to obfuscate or false promises of future policy change meant to placate people.

Because I think the PR moves help cover up a lot of harm that following the doctrine does cause. Catholic church has been a major player in the spread of AIDs in Africa. They have caused a lot of setback in scientific research such as stem cells. I don't like this PR campaign because it gets propped up as an example of how Catholicism actually accepts science and science and religion can hold hands and live happily together when the real world is full of examples the church constantly interferes with science and the overall advancement of people in general.

[D44kpunk]

yes, completely abandon the bible. you should be the next pope, i can see that going over extremely well

[Tyrath]

yes, completely abandon the bible. you should be the next pope, i can see that going over extremely well

Yes, because I seriously think that's gonna happen on a large scale.

I ask that question on an individual basis.

[SephYuyX]

Bible teaches values.
Googlefu http://www.openbible.info/topics/values

[Tyrath]

Bible teaches values.
Googlefu http://www.openbible.info/topics/values

Yeah, there are many nuggets of wisdom in the bible. But there's also a lot of pure filth. Why teach values from a book that you have to cherry pick from?

[SephYuyX]

Examples please.

[D44kpunk]

let me preface this with i do not go to church, i do not plan to go to church, i'm not religious and i do not care how the universe came into being.

i'm pretty sure most educated people do not take the bible literally, they use it as an added moral compass and maybe interpret things a certain way to aid their life. getting rid of the bible completely just seems silly even if you don't believe certain things in it. that's like saying you didn't like harry potter's name so you decided the entire book is trash (ALSO SNAKES CAN'T TALK, U FUKN INSANE HARRY WTF?)

one thing i'll never understand is why people care so much, if going to church makes people happy/benefits their life somehow why do you actually care? personally other than as a small child when my parents would have me go to church i have never had Christianity or Catholicism forced on me at all, at any point in my life. maybe i'm lucky but i doubt it. I have though had several close friends try to force me to admit i'm atheist so we can god-bash together.

the whole church-hate thing doesn't make sense to me, it's like smoking in the bathroom skipping your high school classes. we get it, you're cool man (not directing this at anyone, just hoping someone gives me some insight.)

[ringthree]

Which is why I'm wondering why not abandon the whole thing completely seeing as it's full of inaccuracies and inconsistencies. What is the need for it?

Are you being serious, or are you just trolling?

Ahh, you are just trolling.

[ronin sparthos]

I rather look at individuals than organizations like the Catholic Church because everyone takes their faith differently and because the organization itself is responsible for countless acts of cruelty, intolerance and general shitstirring. But what's new when you obtain massive amounts of unchecked power attributed to God and reinforced with fire, ignorance and death?

The nuns who ran my old elementary school were about as liberal as you can get without getting written up by a cardinal while many of the other 'Catholics' around me who didn't even know the rules and simply cribbed Protestants while interjecting their own opinions as canonical fact. That works both positively and negatively but ultimately rests upon the individual.

Scholars are generally more open minded in their thinking and ability to bend/play/adjust the rules to create interpretations that fit their models while adhering to some level of canon. It's also helps the Catholic Church is among the oldest sect of Christianity and has had the wealth to foster the upbringing of intellectuals within their ranks. The very same intellectuals that caused their slow demise from the glory days of complete global saturation but that's a story for another thread!

[BaneTheBrawler]

Because I think the PR moves help cover up a lot of harm that following the doctrine does cause. Catholic church has been a major player in the spread of AIDs in Africa. They have caused a lot of setback in scientific research such as stem cells. I don't like this PR campaign because it gets propped up as an example of how Catholicism actually accepts science and science and religion can hold hands and live happily together when the real world is full of examples the church constantly interferes with science and the overall advancement of people in general.

like i said, the pope isn't going to sway anyone who doesn't already agree with him. people who don't want to use condoms will just say their dick is too big or that it doesnt feel as good. people who do want to just won't feel guilty about using them anymore.

so essentially, you don't like this because RELIGION IS BAD MKAY

[Tyrath]

one thing i'll never understand is why people care so much, if going to church makes people happy/benefits their life somehow why do you actually care? personally other than as a small child when my parents would have me go to church i have never had Christianity or Catholicism forced on me at all, at any point in my life. maybe i'm lucky but i doubt it. I have though had several close friends try to force me to admit i'm atheist so we can god-bash together.

I don't care if going to church makes people happy or benefits their life. If it does, great. It would be amazing if that is literally all religion was ever there for. The problem arises when religion and people who take it seriously start bringing it into politics and into the lives of people who don't follow it. Gay marriage is still not legal in the entire country. Is every religious person to blame for it? NO. But is the doctrine they follow the biggest reason behind it? You bet your ass it is. I don't care if you practice religion in your privacy, but I do think organized religion is a major cockblock to progress for society.

like i said, the pope isn't going to sway anyone who doesn't already agree with him. people who don't want to use condoms will just say their dick is too big or that it doesnt feel as good. people who do want to just won't feel guilty about using them anymore.

so essentially, you don't like this because RELIGION IS BAD MKAY

Yeah I think organized religion is bad, why is that not a legitimate reason to have an issue with it?

[ronin sparthos]

the whole church-hate thing doesn't make sense to me, it's like smoking in the bathroom skipping your high school classes. we get it, you're cool man (not directing this at anyone, just hoping someone gives me some insight.)

Some of the church hate comes from people who have had negative experiences with Church and that's very common in Protestant / Evangelical sects where these motherfuckers will ruin you if you go outside the lines. It's anti-intellectualism dialed up to 11 and it's worse if you refuse to mesh. This is pretty common America where everyone and their pet dog Spot wants to run an extortion rac... er church where they're God and you need to empty your wallet, motherfucker.

It's painfully shortsighted to think people don't like Church cause they want to be cool. It's insulting almost.

[Tyrath]

It's painfully shortsighted to think people don't like Church cause they want to be cool. It's insulting almost.

It's okay, he's never been religious and never been particularly affected by it so everyone else who speaks out must just want attention, amirite?

[SephYuyX]

But it's not organized to an extent.

Yes, the church out right says vote pro life, and for no gay marriage, but not everyone in the church votes that way.
The church has sheeple that will follow blindly, just like everyone else. There are tons of people who belong to forums and groups, have friends and family, that tell people to vote one way or the other, and the sheeple follow blindly.

Organized religion is just as harmful as organized politics, but people will follow blindy regardless.

Most catholics would kill for someone like ron paul over the next clinton or bush

[BaneTheBrawler]

Yeah I think organized religion is bad, why is that not a legitimate reason to have an issue with it?

do you honestly not see the irony or are you just stupid?