Pope @ world. "God isn't magic"

[Andalusian girls]

research has shown physical discipline (absent outright abuse) to be one of the least effective modes of behavioral modification in children, and it is correlated to increased levels of aggression, criminality, mental illness, and inhibited cognitive development. the increases are generally slight, being spanked a couple dozen times won't make you a psychopathic killer with a limited vocabulary, but there have been little to no demonstrated remedial benefits that offset the potential harms.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...peds.2011-2947

http://www.apa.org/research/action/s...-children.aspx

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1211103958.htm

the Pope may find it as beautiful as he finds gays adopting children blasphemous, but the growing body of psychological research all points in one direction and there is increasing political opposition to the practice; Spain, Germany, and the Scandinavian countries, among others, have banned corporal punishment in the home. i suspect it will some day be looked upon as we now look upon the practice of a school teacher bloodying an unruly student's thighs with a switch.

[Tyrath]

I do believe, somewhere in this forum, is an entire thread about why parents should still be allowed to slap sense into their children and that the gentleness of this generation's parents is creating a weak and spoiled generation of children. I'm pretty sure most of BG is going to stand firm with the Pope on this one - but the whole social justice wave that seems to have hit here may have converted most of them.

This whole subset would be one that is uneducated to the fact that hitting your kid doesn't help improve their behavior. Like said above, study after study shows that it is not actually very effective. Beyond that i'd like to think we've come further along than to have the need to strike our young to make them behave.

Positive reinforcement will always trump negative reinforcement as far as being an actual useful method of discipline.

[Blubbartron]

This whole subset would be one that is uneducated to the fact that hitting your kid doesn't help improve their behavior. Like said above, study after study shows that it is not actually very effective. Beyond that i'd like to think we've come further along than to have the need to strike our young to make them behave.

Positive reinforcement will always trump negative reinforcement as far as being an actual useful method of discipline.

In the long term, yes, but in the short term, when your toddler is doing something dangerous that could seriously injure/maim/kill them, a swat on the butt is the most prudent course of action. Even the studies he linked noted that it immediately stops the behavior, so swat first, and explain after for a more long term behavioral change.

[Hatedregret]

Sounds like a whole bunch of people without kids up in here.

[Andalusian girls]

he's not allowed to have kids he's the pope

[Dimmauk]

Lazy, self centered parents hit their children. I've never hit my kids, I spend time with them, coach them, and love them.

[Tyrath]

Lazy, self centered parents hit their children. I've never hit my kids, I spend time with them, coach them, and love them.

This. If you advocate hitting them you just aren't willing to put in the time that is required to teach them without force.

[Jefe]

I agree, that's the best thing a parent ought to do. But what if one 'doesn't have the time required to teach 'em w/o force,' like you and I? There's loads of immigrant folks who lack the money, education (some don't even speak Spanish), and time to invest in their children. Because they'd rather work all day to put food in their mouths. So they've learned from personal experience, 'hey if I spank them they'll stop right away w/e the fuck they're doing.' What are you gonna do w/ these peeps, educate them? Tell 'em not to shit children? That they're shitty parents? Me? I don't mind a spanking here and there (not for girls doe, they'll hate your ass and become strippers... if you're lucky).

[BaneTheBrawler]

Shitting children is never a good sign. They should probably get a colonoscopy.

Spoiler: show

couldn't resist. anyway carry on. im not sure corporal punishment is exactly on-topic but since the pope was talking about it, it's close enough for now. I may end up spinning that off into its own topic later on, we'll see.

[Dimmauk]

I agree, that's the best thing a parent ought to do. But what if one 'doesn't have the time required to teach 'em w/o force,' like you and I? There's loads of immigrant folks who lack the money, education (some don't even speak Spanish), and time to invest in their children. Because they'd rather work all day to put food in their mouths. So they've learned from personal experience, 'hey if I spank them they'll stop right away w/e the fuck they're doing.' What are you gonna do w/ these peeps, educate them? Tell 'em not to shit children? That they're shitty parents? Me? I don't mind a spanking here and there (not for girls doe, they'll hate your ass and become strippers... if you're lucky).

Excuses. I run a business and work almost every day, and my wife also works. I learned as a kid that there is a difference between a lite spank and abuse. I told myself I would never do that to my children.

[kuronosan]

This whole subset would be one that is uneducated to the fact that hitting your kid doesn't help improve their behavior. Like said above, study after study shows that it is not actually very effective. Beyond that i'd like to think we've come further along than to have the need to strike our young to make them behave.

Positive reinforcement will always trump negative reinforcement as far as being an actual useful method of discipline.

You mean positive punishment.

[Tyrath]

You mean positive punishment.

Yeah I used the wrong terminology.

Here's a new one

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ren-is-selfish

Pope Francis: not having children is selfish

Pope Francis has chided couples who choose not to have children, saying the decision is a “selfish” act. The statement, made in his general audience in St Peter’s Square, will be seen as especially controversial in Italy, which has recorded a steady drop in its birth rate for decades.

“A society with a greedy generation, that doesn’t want to surround itself with children, that considers them above all worrisome, a weight, a risk, is a depressed society,” the pope said. “The choice to not have children is selfish. Life rejuvenates and acquires energy when it multiplies: It is enriched, not impoverished.”

The address was focused primarily on the joy of children and their role in society. The pope recalled a childhood memory, when his mother was asked which of her five children was her favourite. “She would say, ‘I have five children like I have five fingers. If they beat one of my fingers, all five hurt. All of my children are mine, but each one is different,’” he said.

“You love your child because he is a child, not because he is beautiful, healthy, and good; not because he thinks like me, or embodies my desires. A child is a child: a life created by us but destined for him.”

He said there was a strong correlation between a society’s level of hope and its “inter-generational harmony”.

The remarks echoed his earlier comments on the topic of childlessness. Last year, he warned against the lure of a “culture of wellbeing” that can come when a couple does not have children and has the money and freedom to take nice holidays and buy a second home in the countryside.

“It might be better, more comfortable, to have a dog, two cats, and the love goes to the two cats and the dog,” he said. “Is this true or is this not? Have you seen it? Then, in the end, this marriage comes to old age in solitude, with the bitterness of loneliness.”

“The joy of children makes their parents hearts throb and reopens the future,” he said. “Children are not a problem of reproductive biology, or one of many ways to realize oneself in life. Let alone their parent’s possession. Children are a gift. Do you understand? Children are a gift,” he added.

Last week, the pontiff said that hitting a child was an acceptable form of discipline, although it was important to maintain their “dignity” in the process.

The Vatican later clarified the remark, saying the pope did not endorse violence or cruelty against a child.

My first thought was "Only a Sith deals in absolutes."

Like, come on. Judgmental much? What business is it of yours if someone finds life more fulfilling without children? There are enough fucktards out there having kids who shouldn't be and there are plenty of people who don't have kids and adopt instead. Blanket statements like this are ridiculous to hear.

There are plenty of things that there aren't plenty of in the world. Children is not one of those things. Humans as a whole could do with slowing down the birth rate so we have less overpopulation issues.

[Jefe]

What do you propose we do w/ these peeps who 'have children but ain't prepared to have 'em?' How do you decide who is capable or incapable? Education levels? Emotional, physical, and financial stability?

As far as having/not having kids: there's some weird shit going on in Japan where peeps ain't having children; they may be fucking but not breeding. Then you have places like India and China where they are literally shitting children. What will you tell 'em?

[Tyrath]

Nothing. Do what you will and what feels right for your life. I certainly won't have the gall to call someone selfish for making the decisions that they feel is best for themselves.

[kuronosan]

How is not having kids selfish?

In Japan the reason for not having kids is social. It's not like people don't want children.

[Blubbartron]

How is not having kids selfish?

In Japan the reason for not having kids is social. It's not like people don't want children.

It's selfish because the bible says go forth and multiply, and because the cult of catholicism will cease to be if its people stop procreating and indoctrinating future cult members. And because the science of environmental sustainability is totally irrelevant if you're given a divine mandate to pop out kids like a bunny rabbit.

[archibaldcrane]

How is not having kids selfish?

Well, that would depend on why you don't want to have them.

[kuronosan]

Clarify.

[archibaldcrane]

If you don't want kids because they'd take up all your video game playing time, or they'd stop you from going on 4 vacations a year or whatever, those are selfish reasons.

(they're perfectly valid, but by definition selfish)

If you don't want kids because you feel you can't afford to provide for them or you think you'd be a terrible parent, those are not selfish reasons.

[SamanosukeShiva]

selfish against unborn children that are still floating around in the ether.