Rogue/Ninja Discussion

**Ratatapa** · 2014-11-29 22:37

Originally Posted by Niiro

Nothing manawall couldn't already do but better (and on the same recast).

Manawall doesn't work on bouquet tho, tested with a blm friend earlier

**Niiro** · 2014-11-29 22:38

Well in that case who gives a fuck, it's not even a KO anymore.

**SamanosukeShiva** · 2014-11-29 22:42

@uryuu
yeah and also when you do this, the timing works out that TA always ready just before bennus die

**Ratatapa** · 2014-11-29 22:53

Originally Posted by Niiro

Well in that case who gives a fuck, it's not even a KO anymore.

Pugs still want to skip because " it's sooooo hard to heal"

**Niiro** · 2014-11-30 00:58

In the few times I've run T6 since I still don't act during it, it's not like it kills your damage either.

Unless your group is slow as fuck you're only going to be able to P.Dodge one anyway, the recast is too long.

"Omygod the NIN got 2 more GCDs off the entire fight"

**Arthars** · 2014-11-30 01:17

that perfect dodge on 3rd earthshaker on bahamut while you have tempest on you is useful as fuck ^Q^

**Kipling** · 2014-11-30 04:42

Originally Posted by Arthars

that perfect dodge on 3rd earthshaker on bahamut while you have tempest on you is useful as fuck ^Q^

It's useful, yeah. But we found it easier to just have the tanks take it after people on here suggested it.

**Arthars** · 2014-11-30 07:19

depends what healers you got tho

that tempest > breathe on MT can wipe a raid

**Kipling** · 2014-11-30 12:17

Originally Posted by Arthars

depends what healers you got tho

that tempest > breathe on MT can wipe a raid

It can, but we did it even without Dragon Kick. So I don't think it.l is as bad as people might think.

**Arthars** · 2014-11-30 13:47

^5 on that one

we didnt have a MNK too!

although im not gotta lie, i would love 1 haha

**Niiro** · 2014-12-01 12:17

Does anyone else find it a bit odd that one of the things they intend to do to "balance" NIN is increase the TP cost of WSs?

Hasn't excess skill speed and TP starvation been an issue we've been waiting for them to address since like......2.2?

Seems more than a bit stupid to use what we all recognize as a flaw in the combat design as a deliberate way to nerf.

**Raldo** · 2014-12-01 12:22

I'm confused... are you saying that you think TP starvation wasn't a conscious and intentional decision by SE? How do you want them to address it, just remove TP altogether?

I don't see it as a flaw, I see it as a conscious design choice. Irritating though it may be.

**Niiro** · 2014-12-01 12:28

The higher ilvl our gear is the more SS we're going to have but with the same amount of TP regeneration.

That certainly seems like a flaw to me.

A flaw that didn't really exist prior to 2.2 because we didn't have the amounts of SS necessary to run out of TP without Paeon, it's also a flaw in that it doesn't effect BLM, speed is a pure gain for them.

(excess speed can cause MP issues for SMN, but it's not as much of an issue as it is for DoW)

**Spider-Dan** · 2014-12-01 12:30

Wouldn't BLM still be limited to waiting on MP ticks at higher SPS? Your MP isn't going to regenerate any faster.

**Niiro** · 2014-12-01 12:35

If only BLM had spells to cast during UI.

Oh wait.

**Spider-Dan** · 2014-12-01 12:39

If your counterargument is that BLM can cast Scathe (or w/e) while waiting to go back to AF3 mode, that isn't exactly a "pure gain." BLM would still need to weigh the value of SPS vs. [stat they are giving up from their other gear option] and decide whether that extra non-AF3 spell is worth the DET/CRT they are losing.

**Niiro** · 2014-12-01 12:43

Many BLMs now cast Thunder -> Blizzard during UI because they can, and believe me they're not crying about any loss in DPS.

What can DoW do when they run low on TP? There some weaker, low TP WSs idk about that let them bide their time until the next Invigorate?

The 2 are not equitable, at all.

**Kaixin** · 2014-12-01 13:30

The systems for mana for summoners and TP feels bad man. Mana for BLMs feels bad less, but still feels bad. It's not unnecessary, but you just feel helpless about it. Be good at hitting buttons, deplete your resources faster.

It should be something like how Shield Swipe works for paladins. You could ignore shield swipe, but you run out of TP. Here it's: Do something "harder" (react to procs) -> Be rewarded with TP. But for other classes it's: Be good at your class -> SLOW DOWN you're out of TP.

**Alistaire** · 2014-12-02 00:27

Well, they have said there are "more abilities like goad" coming, so that's one way to address the flaw/iritating design, either way you wanna call it.

**kisada** · 2014-12-02 02:04

sounds like more shit game design trying to cover up original shit game design.

when will these fucking devs learn?

Thread: Rogue/Ninja Discussion

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