FFXIV Random Complaint Thread II: DPS can't count to potato

[Dotsudoku]

Full STR tanks are unpopular among the lowest common denominator, full VIT tanks are unpopular among the best players. Knowing when either is appropriate(and when to mix/meld) is obviously key, but you should really examine who your ideological allies are in this case

[Carth]

I'd be even more ignorant to state an opinion as fact. So tell me where is the common ground? Obviously I've struck a nerve some where or else you wouldn't be here.

I'll give the benefit of the doubt and believe you're interested in knowing why you're wrong.

Tanks being in STR builds have nothing to do with surviving big pulls. It deals with the competence of your party.

Tanks need to rotate their defense cooldowns to limit the initial big damage.
DPS need to use their cooldowns and find their AoE buttons.
Healers need to not be shit and actually pay attention. Bonus points if you DPS and make the pull even easier to handle.

PLD has their cooldowns + shield; DRK has Blood Price + Dark Arts'd Abyssal Drain; WAR has Equilibrium/Vengeance + Decimate/Steel Cyclone.
WHM can use a Holy rotation (Swiftcasted Holy > Aero III > Holy > Holy > Assize) which makes big pulls a joke.

Tanks that use STR builds actually makes pulls easier, especially if you're WAR or DRK (PLD has to rely on CoS + Goring Blade so they obviously gain less benefit).

Considering XIV is purely a numbers game more HP overall means better survival when they don't know how to tank, so there's some derpsafe built into being full vit, kinda like trash pulls in Alex 2 I seen a DRk in full STR with only 12k hp get floored even with Shadowskin versus my lazyass being in my vit setup (since I got my AS1-3 drops) and having 22k hp with no CDs used still surviving so eh.

It still comes down to if the tank knows wtf they're doing and if the healer can actually heal. I think the overall problem just comes down to: Full STR tanks tend to be shit 99% of the time lol thus why people hate em.

There's also a time and place. 12k HP is extremely bad for DF Alexander imo. 15k HP is a comfortable spot (not just for you, but also your party) and what I would recommend for any tank using DF for Alexander farming. If you have 15k HP and still die, your party is being garbage.

[Deathbringer]

Lost lot on slaying neck in A1S to the drk in static-> said drk uses manifestos on fending neck

[Serenseven]

Considering XIV is purely a numbers game more HP overall means better survival when they don't know how to tank, so there's some derpsafe built into being full vit, kinda like trash pulls in Alex 2 I seen a DRk in full STR with only 12k hp get floored even with Shadowskin versus my lazyass being in my vit setup (since I got my AS1-3 drops) and having 22k hp with no CDs used still surviving so eh.

Every time I've seen an 18K+ HP tank in A2N, my BLM will end up with at least half of the trash, and what I don't have on me, the other DPS will have on them. VIT tanks are surviving without cooldowns because the mobs are no longer on them.

Full STR tanks tend to be shit 99% of the time lol thus why people hate em.

Counterexample above. 99% of PF/DF tanks are shit 99% of the time regardless of gear.

Full STR tanks are unpopular among the lowest common denominator, full VIT tanks are unpopular among the best players. Knowing when either is appropriate(and when to mix/meld) is obviously key, but you should really examine who your ideological allies are in this case

Thank you. Saves me the trouble of having to explain it.

12k HP is extremely bad for DF Alexander imo.

My BLM has 12K HP. If I saw a tank with 12K HP in Alex, I'd bail immediately, because obviously the random number gods hated me.

Actually, can a tank even have as low as 12K HP in Alex, since you have to be i170+ to get in?

[Jem]

Really the issue you're all having here if that you're doing EX roulette with DF tards! I refuse to go tank for DF. That being said I haven't even entered EX since capping Eso via PVP became an option.

[layoneil]

Actually, can a tank even have as low as 12K HP in Alex, since you have to be i170+ to get in?

full i180 left side and no VIT right side is under 13k so yes.

[Carth]

Actually, can a tank even have as low as 12K HP in Alex, since you have to be i170+ to get in?

With no VIT boost, You have 12,406 HP in full i180 gear with STR accessories. If you're minimum i170 you're likely below 12k actually.

[Serenseven]

With no VIT boost, You have 12,406 HP in full i180 gear with STR accessories. If you're minimum i170 you're likely below 12k actually.

Interesting, I was not aware it was that low. I'll have to ask our FC tanks what they had when we started running Alex.

At any rate, thank you (and layoneil).

[BaneTheBrawler]

Y'all acting like vit is mitigation. It's not. Vit is HP. That's it. HP is a buffer, a resource. The gear comes with some secondary stats that do help mitigate, but not enough to be noticeable. All vit build does is buy the healer more time to react. If your healer is slow or undergeared, use vit. If your healer is good, use str. Even on big pulls; the minor mitigation and buffer you get from vit build isnt going to save you if youre not popping cooldowns, and if youre popping cooldowns you dont need that minor defensive boost.

Also, whether the tank sucks or not has nothing to do with str/vit build. They're gonna suck no matter what build they use, and neither will make it easier to keep them alive.

[DeadlyWaltz]

I'll give the benefit of the doubt and believe you're interested in knowing why you're wrong.

Tanks being in STR builds have nothing to do with surviving big pulls. It deals with the competence of your party.

Tanks need to rotate their defense cooldowns to limit the initial big damage.
DPS need to use their cooldowns and find their AoE buttons.
Healers need to not be shit and actually pay attention. Bonus points if you DPS and make the pull even easier to handle.

PLD has their cooldowns + shield; DRK has Blood Price + Dark Arts'd Abyssal Drain; WAR has Equilibrium + Decimate/Steel Cyclone.
WHM can use a Holy rotation (Swiftcasted Holy > Aero III > Holy > Holy > Assize) which makes big pulls a joke.

Tanks that use STR builds actually makes pulls easier, especially if you're WAR or DRK (PLD has to rely on CoS + Goring Blade so they obviously gain less benefit).



There's also a time and place. 12k HP is extremely bad for DF Alexander imo. 15k HP is a comfortable spot (not just for you, but also your party) and what I would recommend for any tank using DF for Alexander farming. If you have 15k HP and still die, your party is being garbage.

1. If you're using Vitality Gear then you wouldn't need to blow so many cooldowns in order to maintain your survivability as a tank. Vit Accessories and VIT in general is a Primary Stat for any tank. I think you would know this.

2. Warrior I can agree with, they have a huge HP Pool. Not to mention Inner Beast, Bloodbath, Defiance and I believe....Storms Path I'm going to have to disagree with Dark Knight's in full strength I'm gonna have to disagree with, while Warrior has the skill kit to maintain their own HP Pool. Dark Knight's do not. I ddon't know what cross class skills they have but Dark Knight in my opinion doesn't have natural strength in the class itself to be on par with Warrior in full Strength Gear. Here is why, and this is purely my opinion mind you.

Abyssal Drain - It's a good skill, returns a % of HP back, but the MP Cost is lengthy. I don't think any sensible Dark Knight is going to be spamming that.

Soul Eater - Also a good HP % Skill, cost TP instead of MP. Good sustain. I'm not sure how the formula is calculated. If the skill is based off of STR, where x amount of STR = Damage. Damage = % of HP Returned. If it's something like this then perhaps 2 STR/3 VIT accessories would be acceptable.

Blood Price - Goes hand in hand with Abyssal Drain.. You take damage to restore MP in order to use your MP Related skills. A bit redundant if you ask me. This skill in my opinion only comes off to me if you have the HP to take said hits in order to use the skill properly.

If I had to make any changes to Dark Knight, it would have to be Salted Earth. I believe that would give them more viability as a STR based class. This is what I would do, I would keep the effect it already has, but instead add an HP Drain effect to it.

I haven't heard of a Dark Knight (Yet) anyways, pulling as much DPS as a Warrior. A warrior can pull enough DPS with say Bloodbath on to sustain their own HP Pool quite well, Dark Knight's not so much, which is why STR DRK's are frowned upon. They don't have the DPS to sustain their own lifeforce and end up taking dirt naps. It's not even a Healers fault, if you're being hit for more than you can handle and dish out to return that missing HP that's a gear check.

[Eleven19]

[Grey Jorildyn]

What the fuck did I just read.

[Neon_Sea]

lurkmoar

[Hellfury]

You gotta stop feeding the troll. They're not going to explode from it.

[Carth]

You gotta stop feeding the troll. They're not going to explode from it.

I give everyone one chance.

[Elcura]

The real question is why don't people just get better? That way healers can DPS with tanks in STR gear then everyone wins.

[kisada]

where do people like this come from

[Eleven19]

where do people like this come from

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/forum.php

[Dotsudoku]

1. If you're using Vitality Gear then you wouldn't need to blow so many cooldowns in order to maintain your survivability as a tank. Vit Accessories and VIT in general is a Primary Stat for any tank. I think you would know this.

Not touching the rest of your wrongness with a 10-foot pole, but how on earth did you arrive at this conclusion? However minimal the increase, STR gear is going to lessen the duration of any given pull. You'll objectively require more cooldowns in VIT gear. Even if you have to do a considerable number of Flashes(because PLD is stupid and can't AoE), the pseudo-potency of the ability rises with your attack strength, so you're able to get back to Goring Blade even quicker.

[Taint]

1. If you're using Vitality Gear then you wouldn't need to blow so many cooldowns in order to maintain your survivability as a tank. Vit Accessories and VIT in general is a Primary Stat for any tank. I think you would know this.

2. Warrior I can agree with, they have a huge HP Pool. Not to mention Inner Beast, Bloodbath, Defiance and I believe....Storms Path I'm going to have to disagree with Dark Knight's in full strength I'm gonna have to disagree with, while Warrior has the skill kit to maintain their own HP Pool. Dark Knight's do not. I ddon't know what cross class skills they have but Dark Knight in my opinion doesn't have natural strength in the class itself to be on par with Warrior in full Strength Gear. Here is why, and this is purely my opinion mind you.

Abyssal Drain - It's a good skill, returns a % of HP back, but the MP Cost is lengthy. I don't think any sensible Dark Knight is going to be spamming that.

Soul Eater - Also a good HP % Skill, cost TP instead of MP. Good sustain. I'm not sure how the formula is calculated. If the skill is based off of STR, where x amount of STR = Damage. Damage = % of HP Returned. If it's something like this then perhaps 2 STR/3 VIT accessories would be acceptable.

Blood Price - Goes hand in hand with Abyssal Drain.. You take damage to restore MP in order to use your MP Related skills. A bit redundant if you ask me. This skill in my opinion only comes off to me if you have the HP to take said hits in order to use the skill properly.

If I had to make any changes to Dark Knight, it would have to be Salted Earth. I believe that would give them more viability as a STR based class. This is what I would do, I would keep the effect it already has, but instead add an HP Drain effect to it.

I haven't heard of a Dark Knight (Yet) anyways, pulling as much DPS as a Warrior. A warrior can pull enough DPS with say Bloodbath on to sustain their own HP Pool quite well, Dark Knight's not so much, which is why STR DRK's are frowned upon. They don't have the DPS to sustain their own lifeforce and end up taking dirt naps. It's not even a Healers fault, if you're being hit for more than you can handle and dish out to return that missing HP that's a gear check.

How much do I have to donate to "time out" this OF product.