FFXIV Random Complaint Thread II: DPS can't count to potato

[FHT]

Why do you have chat profanity on?

Because my computer did something strange 3-4 days ago, I lost files (and ACT) & when I logged back in all my HUD/config were gone, had to redo it all but left some minus out, such as profanity filter I guess.

lmao cancer df

Funnily enough they bashed me alot on my gears, most of them came in iLv183 MAX beside the WAR who had the Hive Great Axe and the NIN with his Eso weapon, knowning the game mentality where people need to flash out how better they are than everyone else, I wonder why none of them came in with their so godly geared main job, after all it would have just speeded the whole thing out. Their DPS was piss poor too.. My ACT isn't working anymore right now, but if it does matter I was top of the lolgame party parser, just by doing Delirium & some random DA+C&S, while being out of Grit, which is how I nearly robbed the hate from that WAR.

[Kaisha]

, but if it does matter I was top of the lolgame party parser

Those are threat bars relative to the current selected target.

[FHT]

The more DPS is done on said target, the more your threat increase and so your position on the threat meter right? cause I was #2 for as long as the Original Oppressor was alone, Grit Off Delirium combo/C&S/Plunge/Scourge generate 0 enmity beside the raw damage dealt to the target, contrary to Powerslash combo which has an enmity generation bonus from Spinning Slash upward. Or so I am mistaken on my combos, but Sysphon Strike/Delirium/Hard Slash does not says "enmity bonus" on their help windows.
But as I pointed, WAR nearly lost hate to me & I had to turn on an add at this point.

[BaneTheBrawler]

No. Threat is threat, has very little to do with damage.


I can pull off a tank with Eye for an Eye.

[FHT]

No. Threat is threat, has very little to do with damage.


I can pull off a tank with Eye for an Eye.

Ok, my question being why would I be on top of a DPS when both him & I use no threat generation abilities? this being said, I really need to re install ACT asap.

[Raldo]

No. Threat is threat, has very little to do with damage.

Threat has very much to do with damage, you're fooling yourself if you think otherwise. That's certainly not the only thing that affects threat obviously, I can pull hate with Mudras, but if he wasn't in Grit, and wasn't doing hate combo moves, then damage dealt is a pretty accurate depiction of threat.

[Neon_Sea]

Try holding hate while mini or atk down, not gonna happen

[Elcura]

Because the DPS sucks or can use hate reduction abilities (lol)?

Generally it's not a great measure of how well you're doing though.

[BaneTheBrawler]

Quelling Strikes. Elusive Jump. Copious oGCD buffs.

Everything you do generates threat. It's a stupid way to gauge DPS in any terms more accurate than "i am doing stuff" and "i am not doing stuff"

[Dotsudoku]

Additionally have DPS like SMN whose enmity is split between two entities

[Niiro]

Every DPS has a skill that directly manipulates hate except MNK.

[Ratatapa]

Every DPS has a skill that directly manipulates hate except MNK.

Every dps has a way to manipulate hate, it's called death

[Twilight Sky]

Every DPS has a skill that directly manipulates hate except MNK.

Don't even need a skill for that.

I've gone a long long time never needing quelling strikes, and I'm not one of those dumb asses that keeps attacking after I rip aggro. I will say though this is how you find out if the tank has provoke or not, haha.

[Alistaire]

Quelling Strikes. Elusive Jump. Copious oGCD buffs.

Everything you do generates threat. It's a stupid way to gauge DPS in any terms more accurate than "i am doing stuff" and "i am not doing stuff"

Also shadewalker and smokescreen. So pretty much just MNK has no innate threat reduction and they could still end up the target of smokescreen if a nin with them thinks they'll need help with that for some reason.

[FHT]

Quelling Strikes. Elusive Jump. Copious oGCD buffs.

Everything you do generates threat. It's a stupid way to gauge DPS in any terms more accurate than "i am doing stuff" and "i am not doing stuff"

One of us obviously misunderstand the game mechanics related to raw damage & enmity generation to the treat meter, so correct me if I am wrong, but;

Spoiler: show

Tomorrow you hit a monster 10 times for 100 damage per hits (1000 damage total) with any non enmity generation attack then any DPS/Tank (out of enmity stance) using any non enmity generating attack/or even a SMN/BLM using ruin/fire once come & deal 1001 damage after you, they will get the threat off you due to your raw DPS number being lower than their.

You're tanking on any class (you have 20k HP) (again with no enmity generation bonus applied and you get to hit the monster once for (lets say 2700HP) while he dropped your own HP to 10k, then you turn away. A healer come & spam 10 cure I on you for 400HP each (giving you back 4000HP total), while another one come & give you only one cure I for 4020+ HP, they will rip the threat off that other healer (and you) in one go because their cure raw number was higher than the other healer or even the 2700 raw number you dealt in damage, all of these exemple show you any non enmity generation TP/spell used, they're all just raw numbers sent to the game which establish the treat meter accordingly to the highest values.

Now take a Dungeon pull scenario with a spell like Unleash (which has an enmity generation bonus on top of making raw low damages) and any DPS focus on 1 random target, while enmity is something that decrease overtime, if it wasn't for that enmity bonus applied by Unleash, the DPS would steal aggro off you straigth away because of their higher raw damage value. Same can be said about flash "increase enmity in all target around you" <-- remove that & the blind effect will not sustain any enmity on its own. This is why you have to reapply Flash 2 times on your packs & why you have to rotate your Rage of Halone combo on each targets in sight if the DPS/healers have a weapon iLv similar to/ higher than your weapon iLv, and why tanks can't keep enmity of DPS who outgear them by 25+ iLv, this is also why you have to turn off any regen spell cast on you while you pull because it count as "raw value" toward a group of untouched mobs linking in a pack of 3.

As for something like an enhanced Dark Passenger? They have no enmity modifier either and generate only a little treat based on raw numbers, this skill is purely here to DPS & blind target, unlike Flash which is there to increase overall enmity on all target & blind them.

Obviously accurate maths is not my thing, and I prefer to leave it to your BG proffessionals (/disclamer: I am not being sarcastic here!) but as someone who tanked everything since Day 1, this is my experience of treat generation versus raw damages.

Additionaly, this guy posted an example similar to mine here his example is much more simple.

Finaly, IIRC SE increased enmity generation in 2 different small fixing patches in the past because of how the iLv system worked regarding weapons iLv & their respective damage potency.

As for these clowns, they were not bothering doing their own job properly to begin with, so I highly doubt they ever used such enmity decrease skills.

[BaneTheBrawler]

The numbers here are made-up bullshit, but the principle is what I'm trying to explain:

Someone else and I have not engaged a mob at all. I hit once for 10 dmg, then use 3 cooldowns. Someone else pops three cooldowns then hits once for 14. I still have threat, because cooldowns generate threat.


Numbers matter, but they aren't the only thing that matters even ignoring "increases enmity" skills. Making it a stupid way to gauge dps.

[The Stig]

Best hate stealing example i can think of is Titan's first jump and a healer spams Medica. Since hate is still accrued, and on a less experienced tank, Titan lands and slaps the healer silly until the tank can get hate again.

[Niiro]

Someone should make a program that tracks how much damage people do and display it in an easy to read way.

It would make this conversation seem awfully stupid, that is, if we had such a program I mean.

[FHT]

Someone should make a program that tracks how much damage people do and display it in an easy to read way.

It would make this conversation seem awfully stupid, that is, if we had such a program I mean.

Someone should read the previous comments too.

The numbers here are made-up bullshit, but the principle is what I'm trying to explain:

Someone else and I have not engaged a mob at all. I hit once for 10 dmg, then use 3 cooldowns. Someone else pops three cooldowns then hits once for 14. I still have threat, because cooldowns generate threat.


Numbers matter, but they aren't the only thing that matters even ignoring "increases enmity" skills. Making it a stupid way to gauge dps.

Bold comment: a DPS generate treat only with his raw numbers, the use of one more CD isn't gonna make a difference on a parser.

Now apply this example to the A1N situation, DPS using whichever cooldown they had, lets say (DRG minimum 2 for DPS) (NIN minimum 2 for DPS) (BRD minimum 4 for DPS), verus a tank out of its tank stance, only using non enmity generation combo +( Blood Weapon every 40 secs/scourge every 30 sec, as OGD) and 1 DA C&S every 1 minute.

If what you said applied there, I'd have been down the list pretty quickly before 0.5 ever came, so either they were standing still which they were not, or they had a terrible DPS for w/e reason (which could include the non use of DPS CDs.)

[Niiro]

Does not make this conversation any less stupid.