FFXIV Random Complaint Thread II: DPS can't count to potato

[Judai]

"My experiences are everyone elses" well that's really good for you. Good until you reach the max limit and have to tell people to not come (still) or you get into the run and realise that instead of 1, or maybe even 2 slackers you have 16 and because it's a raid that everyone wants to be so hard and need skill that means at least 90% of the raid has to not be functionally retarded.

Or maybe you're just the exception and don't give a fuck, in which case no one gives a fuck.



Why does a raid need a certain number of people to be considered a raid rather than the actual content within the event making it a raid? If you could do what people call a classic raid with less than classic raid numbers (at any point in the game) does it cease being a raid? I don't get why people are so pedantic about what is a raid and what isn't.



Aside from learning how to paragraph properly (because these posts are getting long) I agree. Trash mobs and split paths may make for a classic raid but holy shit I don't care what happens before I reach a boss. Even with adds/trash appear as part of the scripted fight I barely give a shit because I came to this arena to fight a motherfucking dragon/bird/hydra/cat, not their shitty spawn.



I just want people to think about CT. Imagine if any fight in CT was as punishing as turn 7 was. Hell, I've been in CT runs that have felt like turn 7 because 2/3 parties don't feel like pulling their weight. People get stressed out and bitchy over 8 man raids (OH NO I SAID RAID AND REFERENCED LESS THAN 24 PEOPLE) because they're actually difficult. If you had that difficulty with 20+ people it would be nigh impossible, so what's the alternative? Make shit really easy. Like CT. Or spend ages balancing and adjusting constantly because there's no good way to balance fights with more than 20 people aside from overdoing it one way or another.

Congrats, you completely missed my point. I was trying to say, that if they had harder 24 man content, maybe some of those players who feel left out, would get spots and make new friends since everyone would need more people. This would hopefully bring the player base together more and get people to try harder instead of hope someone will carry this derp easy ST. One thing I see ALL the time, from people who don't do coil, is when my group carries them on something and they go, SEE IT'S SO EASY, WHY CAN'T I FIND 7 PEOPLE LIKE YOU GUYS TO DO THIS. Yet, when I look at their DPS numbers, they are so embarrassingly low it's clear that part of the problem any group they ran with had, was their terrible DPS. With the number of people who complain about wishing they could find 7 other good people to Coil with, you would think they would find each other and make some fucking parties.

I don't need T13 difficulty raid boss for 24 people but something like 24 man Dynamis/Limbus, where you can clear different paths for different reasons, with an optional, difficult end boss, would be nice. One week you clear out x path to get tons of gear drops, another week you clear x path to get access to some boss fight, etc, etc.

Finally, not everything in the game needs to be beatable or made for every player. Currently, hardcore endgame players have Coil and that's it. The entire rest of the game is faceroll easy for regular players or casuals, it's not my fault if they can't even muster the attention to actually try to be good at it. How many XI players actually beat every TAU King, Salvage, Tiamat/Vrtra/Jorm, Odin, Dynamis Lord, etc? Not everything in XI was made for every single player to beat or even see but they had plenty of stuff for everyone to do.

[Arthars]

Trash is only trash because it serves no purpose other than to delay you slightly, it's designed to be trash. Give it purpose and trash suddenly is important. Make it drop crafting mats, affect which path you can take in the dungeon, and/or the loot and difficulty of the boss. If killing/not killing all the Allagan Nagas suddenly made Imdugud easier or harder, people would take more notice of them instead of having a Ninja sneak past everything while people afk.

randomly make 1 of the trash mob drop the designated twine/coat, instead of being a end coffer item would be a good start

inc PF "Weekly trash mob T10, experienced players onry"

[Elcura]

Counterpoint: Savage. How many people (percentage-wise out of people who had cleared T9) bothered with it? Yes there are other factors (same lockout, "just a title"). But it's still a thing that exists despite its insanely small eligible playerbase.

Just have something players can strive for that means something. This isn't (entirely) XI-nostalgia talking here. Having a coil-level 24man (or god forbid, variable party size) raid would at least give some options.

This is why I feel you should have OPTIONS for gearing up if it's all going to be the same boring shit of stat number porn and no special effects.

-8man raid
-Weekly currency
-PvP (currently 20 under for PvE)
-24man raid (currently 10 under and stupid-easy)
-Crafted (currently 20 under and a bag of worms)

This would be a start.

The reason savage can be so hard is because it gives you nothing but titles. The moment you start putting actual rewards into content like savage is the moment you get a casual uproar of people bitching they can't do savage and it's too hard etc. Not to mention savage coil comes at very little extra work for the dev team so it's not like they specifically designed it for the hardcore. Which is far more realistic than designing unique content for the minority of your playerbase (which is dumb dumb dumb). Maybe that's ideal for some people, maybe you want to have gear locked behind content 90% of the playerbase can't do but I don't know why you would if your target audience is everyone and not just people who have nothing better to do than be the best in vidya.

I don't disagree with options for gearing, and I would be all for it if it allowed you to gear multiple jobs faster I just think the way the game flows now there isn't much you can do without extending how long wait time is between patches. That's why I'm eager for Heavensfall to see if they can change the status quo.

Congrats, you completely missed my point. I was trying to say, that if they had harder 24 man content, maybe some of those players who feel left out, would get spots and make new friends since everyone would need more people. This would hopefully bring the player base together more and get people to try harder instead of hope someone will carry this derp easy ST. One thing I see ALL the time, from people who don't do coil, is when my group carries them on something and they go, SEE IT'S SO EASY, WHY CAN'T I FIND 7 PEOPLE LIKE YOU GUYS TO DO THIS. Yet, when I look at their DPS numbers, they are so embarrassingly low it's clear that part of the problem any group they ran with had, was their terrible DPS. With the number of people who complain about wishing they could find 7 other good people to Coil with, you would think they would find each other and make some fucking parties.

I didn't miss your point I simply took it from there... so, congrats? What makes you think I was talking directly to you rather than using what you said as a platform to make my point. Anyway, I never doubted that having a larger capacity for members would increase interest. That's a no brainer (which is why I ignored it) since the main problem which people don't think about is balance.

Also on another note let's not pretend that skill is all that matters when forming a group.

I don't need T13 difficulty raid boss for 24 people but something like 24 man Dynamis/Limbus, where you can clear different paths for different reasons, with an optional, difficult end boss, would be nice. One week you clear out x path to get tons of gear drops, another week you clear x path to get access to some boss fight, etc, etc.

You don't need T13 difficulty but with 20+ people the fight is either going to be insanely hard, incredibly easy or just inconsistent. That's kind of the point.

Finally, not everything in the game needs to be beatable or made for every player. Currently, hardcore endgame players have Coil and that's it. The entire rest of the game is faceroll easy for regular players or casuals, it's not my fault if they can't even muster the attention to actually try to be good at it. How many XI players actually beat every TAU King, Salvage, Tiamat/Vrtra/Jorm, Odin, Dynamis Lord, etc? Not everything in XI was made for every single player to beat or even see but they had plenty of stuff for everyone to do.

I agree, but it's stupid to make content for anything less than the majority of your playerbase. Enough people are bitter about coil without something else to exclude them (especially when that something else could include them). But let's not use XI as an example of ridiculous balancing making fights improbable for most of the people playing it.

[Sephiroth]

The problem is there's barely any mid level difficulty content. We get one extreme primal every major patch and that's it. There's no reason a hard mode CT couldn't fill that gap. I'm not sure I'd enjoy 24 man Coil difficulty much but it doesn't have to be tuned to that tier.

The dungeons we get are another example of lazy design. Following the same formula of 3x piss easy 4 man dungeons every patch. They don't all have to be the same difficulty with the same rewards. Make one of them actually live up to the "hard" label, but not Coil tier. The casuals can enjoy it too because it's a challenge for them without feeling like it's impossible like they do with Coil. I'd like to see more 8 man dungeons too, it's ridiculous that we've not seen any since Praetorium.

Problem with SE is it's either one extreme or the other. Faceroll easy or very difficult and it doesn't keep anyone happy.

[solracht]

My biggest complaint about the game is still the fixed party sizes for everything. There's so much bullshit vanity "content" I'd waste time on if I could just enter with whoever is around, such as finishing up CT/allagan sets, ponies, minions, etc.

[Gulkeeva]

The problem is there's barely any mid level difficulty content. We get one extreme primal every major patch and that's it. There's no reason a hard mode CT couldn't fill that gap. I'm not sure I'd enjoy 24 man Coil difficulty much but it doesn't have to be tuned to that tier.

The dungeons we get are another example of lazy design. Following the same formula of 3x piss easy 4 man dungeons every patch. They don't all have to be the same difficulty with the same rewards. Make one of them actually live up to the "hard" label, but not Coil tier. The casuals can enjoy it too because it's a challenge for them without feeling like it's impossible like they do with Coil. I'd like to see more 8 man dungeons too, it's ridiculous that we've not seen any since Praetorium.

Problem with SE is it's either one extreme or the other. Faceroll easy or very difficult and it doesn't keep anyone happy.

Probably hard to find a middle ground considering what is hard for one person, may be easy for another. Just as some people find T13 easy, and others an epic life long struggle.

[Seravi Edalborez]

Problem with SE is it's either one extreme or the other. Faceroll easy or very difficult and it doesn't keep anyone happy.

This and the aforementioned fixed party sizes are why people feel it's so static-or-nothing when it comes to anything on the deep end.

Maybe a hardmode 24man "raid" would be too much of an extreme. How about something "simpler" like a 24-man trial? Maybe even ease into it with a 24-man guildhest. You know like in CT1 there was the 3x demons fight where each party had to DPS them down roughly the same pace, and separated from each other? Something higher-tuned but with that same kind of setup.

Going into fanboy wank territory but I have dreamed for a long fucking time of a 24man primal marathon fight in this game. Here let's make it easy: Ultima Extreme -- basically just fighting Titan/Ifrit/Garuda at the same time with pared-down mechanics.

[vrumpt]

Probably hard to find a middle ground considering what is hard for one person, may be easy for another. Just as some people find T13 easy, and others an epic life long struggle.

I think that's one reason why splitting the Alexander raid into normal and hard modes is a good idea.

Although on the other hand, the current coil difficulty level always gave casuals something to work towards. Now they'll just beat easy mode and quit like in wow.

[Damane]

The problem is there's barely any mid level difficulty content. We get one extreme primal every major patch and that's it. There's no reason a hard mode CT couldn't fill that gap. I'm not sure I'd enjoy 24 man Coil difficulty much but it doesn't have to be tuned to that tier.

The dungeons we get are another example of lazy design. Following the same formula of 3x piss easy 4 man dungeons every patch. They don't all have to be the same difficulty with the same rewards. Make one of them actually live up to the "hard" label, but not Coil tier. The casuals can enjoy it too because it's a challenge for them without feeling like it's impossible like they do with Coil. I'd like to see more 8 man dungeons too, it's ridiculous that we've not seen any since Praetorium.

Problem with SE is it's either one extreme or the other. Faceroll easy or very difficult and it doesn't keep anyone happy.

there is no inbetween casual or coil in terms of difficulty. People that cant handle coil prolly wont be able to handle anything remotly hard, just remember the bitchign about qarn and sastash on release... omg omg omg its tooo hard... yeah ¬.¬

[Corrderio]

My biggest complaint about the game is still the fixed party sizes for everything. There's so much bullshit vanity "content" I'd waste time on if I could just enter with whoever is around, such as finishing up CT/allagan sets, ponies, minions, etc.

This is one reason why I loved GW2. Damn near any PT combo could work for dungeons with very few exceptions. Biggest one being Guardians were loved in Edge of the Mist or w/e it was called for projectile deflection.

[Mina]

bitchign about qarn and sastash on release...

Legit though, timing out on Qarn's Tauri boss over and over because people don't know how to remove doom is the most frustrating thing ever.
That was still happening to me 5 months ago.

I have the worst luck on low level roulette.

I figure if I encounter people who are struggling like this still or the people who couldn't clear story mode Titan... there is just going to be content out there people will never get to beat and I have set my expectations bar way too high for the average player.

Edit: Btw, everyone is free to complain here, you don't have to send me a pm worrying about getting hit with an infraction or a ban for complaining.
Big difference between complaining and trolling.

[Rocl]

Never forget having to make Eos remove Doom, though I think Damane was talking about the new Hard versions.

[Mina]

fair enough lol.

The new ones I consider easier than the low level roulette though ;-; higher success rate.

[Sephiroth]

Probably hard to find a middle ground considering what is hard for one person, may be easy for another. Just as some people find T13 easy, and others an epic life long struggle.

That's true, but my idea of middle ground content is on par with the extreme primals. I'm sure most people would say they're easier than Coil but they aren't faceroll. We need more content like that. That would get the PF groups going, whether it be in a dungeon or trial. There was constant Shiva parties up for the first two months of 2.4 and right now 3/5 of my server's PF groups are extreme primals.

This and the aforementioned fixed party sizes are why people feel it's so static-or-nothing when it comes to anything on the deep end.

Maybe a hardmode 24man "raid" would be too much of an extreme. How about something "simpler" like a 24-man trial? Maybe even ease into it with a 24-man guildhest. You know like in CT1 there was the 3x demons fight where each party had to DPS them down roughly the same pace, and separated from each other? Something higher-tuned but with that same kind of setup.

Going into fanboy wank territory but I have dreamed for a long fucking time of a 24man primal marathon fight in this game. Here let's make it easy: Ultima Extreme -- basically just fighting Titan/Ifrit/Garuda at the same time with pared-down mechanics.

Yeah if they could get variable party sizes to work in raids that would be great, but it makes it a lot harder to develop content that scales in such a way. Changing the lockouts would probably have the biggest effect on moving away from statics. If Coil loot was more like CT where I could re-run to get one piece per week I'd be way more inclined to run it without a static. People don't like the CT loot restriction but that's because it's outdated gear, it would work for Coil.

24 man content that matters would certainly give you reason to be part of an FC. My current FC is pretty much just my Coil static that we created for food buff. I'm not sure that's what SE had in mind with these max 512 member FCs lol.

[Corrderio]

Legit though, timing out on Qarn's Tauri boss over and over because people don't know how to remove doom is the most frustrating thing ever.
That was still happening to me 5 months ago.

I have the worst luck on low level roulette.

I'm still amazing people can struggle with Qarn. Would it really kill someone to read a guide about mechanics ahead of time, people actually talk and discuss fights instead of bitching and regequitting, or being 100% oblivious (I did Qarn last week with a healer that just stood around and let Doom kill him even after we talked about tiles)

[Ratatapa]

I though they had removed doom from qarn or something

[Niiro]

The only change they made that I'm aware of is that they fixed it so standing on top of the rubble doesn't shield you from it anymore.

[RKI]

Bees were nerfed too, no?

[Kaisha]

Final Sting went from one shot to still-will-probably-kill-your-tank.

Last boss lasers were also nerfed heavily. They used to be fast, and only had a little laser line indicator for its direction. Now they're slow, and have large lane indicators on the ground.

[Judai]

That's true, but my idea of middle ground content is on par with the extreme primals. I'm sure most people would say they're easier than Coil but they aren't faceroll. We need more content like that.

This is part of the problem though, Ex Primals and such ARE, faceroll, for the progression Coil players and most of us don't care about them after the first month they are out. I haven't touched Shiva Or ST in 2 months cause they are so easy and I don't need anything from them(anything older I haven't touched in far longer unless carrying someone). The bridge content needs to be above Primals and just below first turns of each Coil.

Variable party size/difficulty content is hard? Seriously? Create a raid that has multiple paths. One path clearly made for smaller parties, one path for larger groups that aren't as good and one path for very experienced groups who want a challenge. Put different gear options in each path and let us choose where we want to farm. Hell, if the best of the best groups want a challenge they can even try to clear ALL the paths before the timer runs down.

The point of larger content isn't necessarily to make things insanely hard that you need a 24 man srs DPS check but to let people come together and play together and have fun together. Dynamis was pretty easy and it was just huge pulls of trash that needed to be coordinated but it was fun, because you were playing with a ton of people and bantering back and forth while either leading or just doing your job. Dynamis offered players a choice to do what they wanted and get what ever reward they wanted though. Only have a few players to raid this week? Well, let's farm certain spots and get the most currency/gear we can. Enough players to clear this week? Let's clear it. Someone in your group is working on relic, get an abjuration this week. Full raid group and you already farmd the hell our of Xarc? Let's kill Dynamis Lord for funsies.

Right now there is no content that brings players together and forces them to make connections so they have enough players to raid the bigger content each week. It's currently, find 7 ppl and disappear into your corner. And again, I CAN'T EVEN FIND 7 PEOPLE, isn't a fucking viable excuse. If there is bigger, harder content out there, those people who already made their statics will eventually find you, because they need more bodies.