11/09/14 Update Discussion/Findings

[Ophannus]

Also sometimes he does Fantod>Backheel instantly for 4k damage but it was very rare, happened like twice ever in 3 hours and nearly 30 pops. Unsure if it was a scripted event or if we just fed it a lot of tp while it was using fantod animation, such that by the time its JA delay was over it could back heel immediately

[Priran]

Also sometimes he does Fantod>Backheel instantly for 4k damage but it was very rare, happened like twice ever in 3 hours and nearly 30 pops. Unsure if it was a scripted event or if we just fed it a lot of tp while it was using fantod animation, such that by the time its JA delay was over it could back heel immediately

A hippogryph NM from CoP was scripted to do that occasionally so it seems pretty likely.

[Tokenr]

NPC base price is 2750 gils. Zaldon is not taking it...

Cameroceras in Sih Gates II with a Minnow. Haven't left the area to check NPC price. It has !!! and is a legendary fish.

A legendary denizen of the deep whose enormous shell is prized by trinket makers the world over.

[Priran]

Regarding that mandragora event again, did anybody else have all of Babban's friends mysteriously die? I'm wondering if it's a glitch or if SE realized this event was stupid and decided to throw everybody a bone.

[Draylo]

You can kill them all with /ra when you are doing the event >.> I killed one lol

[Ligray]

JPs killed all of them this morning and then emergency zone maintenance reset them in the past hour, only to be killed again in less than 10mins lol.

[Ophannus]

Just did some Emperor Arthros. He goes through phases every 20-30 seconds where for 10 seconds everything hits for 0-1 damage. Skill chain, magc burst, requiescat, every rdm enfeeble, piercing/blunt/slashing, nothing bypasses or removes it, have to just endure it. Uses hundred fists often and casts waterja, not too bad with a balanced setup, def want a pld though since it hundred fists often. Popped 3 times, got ha crab shells in one chest, waterja scroll in another, and 2 emperor shells in the final, one person got the belt.

[Karizo]

Just did some Emperor Arthros. He goes through phases every 20-30 seconds where for 10 seconds everything hits for 0-1 damage. Skill chain, magc burst, requiescat, every rdm enfeeble, piercing/blunt/slashing, nothing bypasses or removes it, have to just endure it. Uses hundred fists often and casts waterja, not too bad with a balanced setup, def want a pld though since it hundred fists often. Popped 3 times, got ha crab shells in one chest, waterja scroll in another, and 2 emperor shells in the final, one person got the belt.

actually my group find this behavior to be action based. when he's doing something he will gain insane DT which causes everything to buy for 0-1

[Switchorz]

I killed them all. I feel like I'm going to get in trouble Oo

[dasva]

What about qd?

[Kaia]

Haven't seen this mentioned anywhere else, it seems HQ versions of stuff can drop straight from the coffers.



Already had the NQ in my inventory, so maybe that has something to do with it.

sorry for the enormous picture

[vm0d]

Furious Arundmite:

first tp move is always Filamented Hold.
if Filamented Hold is stunned, mob will use Spinning Top immediately.
if slow from Filamented Hold is immediately removed, mob won't hundred fists. can't tell if it's hitting the mob w/slow on or the mob hitting you with slow on that procs it.
Filamented Hold slow gets resisted about 10% of the time with meva 239, mdb 13, mnd 76+89.
Double Claw resets hate.
~1120 acc (w/o distract or torpor) gives you ~90% hit rate.

[Spira]

Talk about stretching things out lol
You're bringing it too far. What's next, SE playing the game for you so you can sit back and enjoy stuff happening in your screen?

My point was just a practical one.
If you create a system to move fast through locations (wether this is positive or kills exploration etc, let's leave this outside since it's a different topic) I'd much rather have a single one that includes everything from the same menu rather than having a plethora of different ones and each time you have to remember which brings you where and access it from different spots.
In the end it's not too much of a hassle, but what I could've done with a simple click from outside my MH requires me to do that, to move to another position with books, wait for zoning and loading times, walk until I find the second different warping system, access to its menus, navigate through them and then finally select the location I want to move to.
It's seems unnecessarily convoluted to me, there's a lot of steps that could be skipped making the system more straightforward and seamless.

I do agree with the point Malithar made though, with how slow FFXI menus are and with all the on screen max elements display and "next page" issues, that could become quite a hassle just like Malithar said.
Personally between these two different hassles (moving around/zoning/remembering and menu navigation/slow menus) I'd much rather have the latter than the former, but this is kinda personal preference than an objective observation, so I take back my statement and in light of what Malithar showed me.

the impression i get with HPs and Survival Guides is that it came to a point where they decided that a universal transportation system was the way to go. They probably stuck with HPs because its already in all the towns and they wanted there to be at least one in each town.. and extended it to battlefield entrances due to.. well battles. HPs cut across all expansions too.. so its universal.

Survival Guides on the other hand, appear to be catered to Conquest areas. They're a network for teleportation for the old world conquest areas.. and are appearing everywhere. Some of them may overlap with older warps available, but none of the older warps allow you to travel FROM the dungeon to another, or back to town. so theres a new advantage there.

They probably decided that outposts and VW teles weren't sufficient because neither are comprehensive enough and VW requires a different currency.. and that the old world waypoints were just an extra convenience they threw in to tease the waypoint system? It probably also didn't feel as universal to them as the Survival Guides.
There's huge overlaps but it doesn't quite make sense to remove the old systems completely either. I guess they figure we can pick whichever we prefer.

My other guess is also that in the interest of preserving the balance of how expansions were designed, they only introduced survival guides to areas that didn't have their own network of travel implemented - which, afaik is conquest areas. ToAU/sanction areas have runic portals, WotG has campaign teles, SoA has waypoints.

My current gripe with the systems is firstly, they need to allow us to sort Home Point tele list by expansion content, like how Survival Guides are..
and secondly, i think it'd be great if they implemented the map preview system with waypoints and some of the other tele systems.

[sahearniitth]

Haven't seen this mentioned anywhere else, it seems HQ versions of stuff can drop straight from the coffers.

Already had the NQ in my inventory, so maybe that has something to do with it.

sorry for the enormous picture

I have gotten a +1 piece without already having the NQ, so it must just be a random chance.

[sahearniitth]

Emergency Maintence in the Sunshine Event zones on Lakshmi, presumably to raise the dead npc monsters (could be something else but seems to be a reasonable guess). Event is annoying enough WITHOUT the monsters till you get +1 gear.

[KetSC]

tbh i rather take the rng crap then the repeat/learn mechanic fight of ff14 until you vomit

Outside of some holiday or special events, FFXI is fairly light on RNG nowadays. Practically every other MMO I played has way more RNG item based stuff than FFXI.

FFXIV has:

1. Atmas - I know someone who said they grinded FATEs for 6 months and still didn't get all of them (while others have gotten them in one week).

2. Gear drops. For FFXI nowadays, there's almost nothing purely RNG. With Delve and Delve II, you get Mweya Plasm to buy stuff.

With Skirmish, the augments are fairly good. The base items are easy to get but if you want to max, there's a lot of extras to be had by augmenting.

Worse case (for hard mode BCs for example), you still get things like papers to upgrade AF/Relic, etc. You still get some rewards even if the item you want doesn't drop.

In FFXIV, everything is RNG (outside of weekly cap currencies which you end up maxing out fairly quick anyway). I went 1/40 on Syrcus Tower (back in 2.3) trying to get one item I wanted (while others may have gotten them in 1-2 runs). Plus, everything is locked behind weeklies (which for end game stuff, you only have a chance of getting loot from one boss per week).

Also FFXIV doesn't even have a proper loot system other than need before greed which is silly (like I can't go as tank and then try to lot DD/DPS items unless I make it an unofficial rule in PF where you pick 1 item you want or something but then there are some people that loot anywhere regardless). Farm parties are kind of silly in FFXIV because of that (also people often leave after getting their item unlike FFXI where a PUG Skirmish party - everyone usually stays for a set number runs or even a PUG VW party where most people do the usual 12 runs).

Anyway, overall FFXI has been fairly light on the RNG nowadays.

Every event offers some reward even if RNG doesn't go your way.

By that justification, SE should just gift all players Kogarasumarus or other REM/Ergons, full ideal gear, autocap all jobs/skills so that every player can theoretically fit any role without having to put in any effort and wont hold the group back so you can get stuff done faster.

There are things to unlock or grind (that isn't fun) and there's things that are the main selling point of the game. Grind = content most of the cases for MMOs (as long as they make it enjoyable and somewhat meaningful). For things like teleports (the discussion a few pages back), I don't mind them putting it everywhere. Teleports are the tedious stuff you kind of want to get over quickly.

FFXI is probably one of the best MMOs out there in terms of content nowadays. The grind is good and there's always something to do (plus there's always some reward for doing some content compared to other MMOs which is just item drops only).

Other MMOs are locked behind weekly stuff, almost pure RNG drops from end game content (there's no currency system or exchange system to get the item you want, etc). Outside of Skirmish (which is well done IMO, you can get the base item easily but if you want to min/max, you can spend gil + you can always just use airlixir delve gear if you want to avoid RNG).

Do away with the whole merits for KI for HTBCNM system cause who has time to farm merits. If the frequency of the event is an issue put a timer on the BC/KI ala Limbus/Salvage.

As for time limits? I definitely say that's FFXI strongest point nowadays (the lack of things like weekly limits; only thing we really have is once a day dynamis and salvage + assault and that's basically it. There's lots to grind even with almost no time caps. Even back in the day when FFXI had longer caps (like Dynamis), there were still plenty of events that weren't capped (and you could rotate between all events).

Though I do say the should up the cap of merits. You should be able to hold 60 merits (so you can do 3 20 merit BCs per group). That's the only fault in the system atm IMO. If they make it too low or non-existent, people get maxed out too quickly. If they make it on weeklies (like you can do high tier BCs but they are free but capped at maybe like 10 a week), then people feel obligated to do them every week (or if they want to do more in a week, than they can't). I like the way things are done currently (outside of the low merit cap).

In an MMO, stuff to grind = content. The more things to grind, the better the game IMO. FFXI (in terms of content) has a ton of content compared to FFXIV and WoW (to an extent; though end game content in WoW beats FFXI in terms of content; WoW has probably more relevant content mid to end expansion though).

[sfchakan]

1. Atmas - I know someone who said they grinded FATEs for 6 months and still didn't get all of them (while others have gotten them in one week).

I call bullshit on people who claim to farm them for that long. Their farming attempts must be pretty sporadic to not be done in that amount of time.

[Damane]

I call bullshit on people who claim to farm them for that long. Their farming attempts must be pretty sporadic to not be done in that amount of time.

I farmed atmas for 2 weeks every evening for 3-4 hours and ended with 2 atmas only and gave up. rng is rng

[Sechs]

Outside of some holiday or special events, FFXI is fairly light on RNG nowadays. Practically every other MMO I played has way more RNG item based stuff than FFXI.

http://i.minus.com/iB5a0j7rlCrWJ.gif

Wut?
More seriously now: which "other MMOs" do you mean exactely?
I have in mind mainly WoW, TERA and FFXIV and I don't really see things as you do.

You have a very large degree of control over RNG in both FFXIV and especially WoW.
What exactely is so horrendously RNG-reliant on FFXIV that made you so bitter?

Atmas? The situation is nowhere near as bad as you describe, even before the patch that raised the %. You're also missing a very important point here. Atmas is just a content to give some mid/long term purpose to some players in what is otherwise a pretty fast-paced game based on tiers (same model as WoW). Relic/Zodiac weapons in FFXIV are nowhere what the RME are in FFXI (at least the good ones). Check the other top weapons that you can get from the current top event or similar means, there's not that huge of a difference, sometimes they're even better. Gear in games like WoW and FFXIV matters a lot for gear-check fights, but it's a different way of making it matter than FFXI where a single piece completely changes a certain job and becomes mandatory to play that job. In WoW/FFXIV you only get "generic" stats to boost your char, not job specific and overpowered enhancements.
So tl;dr, Atma is not that bad as you make it look, and even if it were it's not a particularly vital/necessary part of the game. (rather, it was a trick to keep fates lively and keep the cycle going, imho)

Gear drops? Seriously? When every fight has at least a certain amount of drops guaranteed and what changes is just the piece of item that drops? Sure it could take you a lot to get the piece you want or to win it, but every fight drops stuff.
It's a completely different psychologycal effect compared to fighting something over and over and over and over and each time see NOTHING drop. (yes, FFXI old NM system, or new NM system)

2. Gear drops. For FFXI nowadays, there's almost nothing purely RNG. With Delve and Delve II, you get Mweya Plasm to buy stuff.

With Skirmish, the augments are fairly good.

Have you even tried to get good augments on weapons and gear? Especially gear with a lot of augments like Iuitl and Hagondes sets? You call that as "RNG has no influence in FFXI" o.O
Capes in Incursion? Not only you have to wish for the right cape to drop, but also for the right augments to appear and for them to be powerful enough! But sure, RNG plays no part in FFXI gear atm inorite.

You still get some rewards even if the item you want doesn't drop.

Because in FFXIV you don't get currency (tomestones, gold etc) from fights even if you don't win drops. Correct?

In FFXIV, everything is RNG

Yeah especially the crafting system is particularly RNG compared to FFXI, you got no control at all on it! Inorite?

Plus, everything is locked behind weeklies (which for end game stuff, you only have a chance of getting loot from one boss per week).

If there weren't weekly caps people who play 24/7 (more than you can imagine) would be done with FFXIV and WoW and playing other games by now.
It's just a way where the devs enforce a certain limit of "pace" for the game. It may suck for people who want to get everything immediately like it happens in FFXI for hardcore players with efficient mules/friends. It has pros and cons, it's hard to compare it to FFXI, liking one system or the other is more a matter of personal preference here rather than objective stuff.

Also FFXIV doesn't even have a proper loot system other than need before greed

Define "proper loot system". Need before greed has been the main standard in games for eons.
Altough I reckon it might feel a bit more limited in a game where you can virtually level every class/job on the same character (in games like WoW, at best, you have mainspec/offspec).
I think it works in a pretty fair way. If you queue as DPS for Duty Finder stuff you can need DPS stuff, likewise if you queue on Tank or DPS. Aside the obvious queue time difference that DPS have compared to healers and tanks, it sounds pretty fair to me (and there are several ways to overcome that time, like queuing with a healer/tank friend).
If you're going with a static you can manually give gear to people in both WoW and FFXIV (altough the former offers more degree of control of course)

Anyway, overall FFXI has been fairly light on the RNG nowadays.

I know! Right?
Or wait...

[Shenrien]

The cancer of people who are bitter over 14 is pretty intense lol, especially those that complain about weekly lock outs. Odds are those said people probably never completed all the content in a week and just watched a video of someone else doing it and just rolled with it.