Unity concord

[dasva]

Although... It makes me wonder. Does MDT actually work on SC damage? I quite vividly recall getting killed by a SC for mirrored DMG on AA GK way back when. A PLD will pretty much always have shell up and GK doesn't have any form of dispel.

What are the chances that SC dmg after shell reduction just happened to equal the WS dmg exactly? <,<

It's supposed to but not sure if it's been retested more recently. As far as likelihood... without knowing anything no it doesn't sound likely. But it is definitely possible. Quick some pld go get charmed and have someone self skillchain you!

[Martel]

And he beat me to it. I should learn to type faster. But, one thing that could still be dangerous is the RNG's WS> you can't block range ws, so a SC closed by one could hurt. Thus the need for adequate PDT.

Although... It makes me wonder. Does MDT actually work on SC damage? I quite vividly recall getting killed by a SC for mirrored DMG on AA GK way back when. A PLD will pretty much always have shell up and GK doesn't have any form of dispel.

What are the chances that SC dmg after shell reduction just happened to equal the WS dmg exactly? <,<

To answer my own question...

2392 reduced by 62/256(shell V) = 1812. So, def works for mobs at least. Which strongly implies it'd work for players. Still have to wonder how I ever took mirrored SC dmg though. There's also the fact that SC have changed a lot since then.

I still wanna see a test on a player, but I don't really have a good way to do that.

Anyway, enough derail. Use Ochain, PDT it up, maybe /blu with cocoon. And make damn sure that if the PLD eats an Aegis schism you get the def- off fast.

[Sechs]

The amount of steps don't matter 1 bit the base dmg for it is always the closing ws dmg. The number of steps and lvl just effect the multiplier

Aren't you saying one thing with the first sentence and negating it with the second one?
Or did I misunderstand you?
If it affects the multiplier of course it's gonna affect the final damage, unless the base damage is 0 of course.


Either way, all that you're saying does make sense. At this point I don't know how to explain or justify what that PLD was saying in ptchat when he whined "omg SC oneshot me I should've Aegised it up".

[dasva]

Well I meant to say that the base dmg isn't changed just the multiplier...

As far as the aegis thing it is possible they are high enough lvl where some hits wont be blocked with ochain and so in those situations yeah aegis would reduce more... or that pld has no idea how skillchains work

[Martel]

Ochain probably doesn't auto-cap block rate on a content lvl 128 fight. But it would for sure with reprisal up. So unless the PLD couldn't maintain reprisal(which has more to do with the buffs the support is giving him than the PLD himself) Ochain is still the better option.

[dasva]

Oh yeah without question better just maybe he got hit with an unlucky unblock and took that as a ochain sucks

[Sechs]

Ochain probably doesn't auto-cap block rate on a content lvl 128 fight. But it would for sure with reprisal up. So unless the PLD couldn't maintain reprisal(which has more to do with the buffs the support is giving him than the PLD himself) Ochain is still the better option.

Oh yeah, now that you make me think about it he mentioned something about "Aegis with Reprisal" being better than Ochain for holding those nms. Honestly at that point I kinda stopped reading what he was typing.
He had March2 and Haste2 so his recast timers should've been pretty much close to ideal conditions.

Oh well, anyway the pt setup was far from ideal but after 1hr of shouting he rightfully got pissed and decided to try regardless. We all agreed to try.

[Martel]

If those NMs are actually lvl 128(the content lvl listed in the RoE page), then Aegis with Reprisal up should have about a 13% block rate. <,<; Somehow, I doubt that would reduce overall WS+SC dmg more than Ochain with 100% block rate.

[Sechs]

Also I think you're right with your Aegis Schism comment.
I forgot to check my debuffs, but having def down from Schism on myself is probably what generated that 2600+ damage Rampage from the WAR on myself.
Possibly Schism wasn't being dispelled on the tank as well.
If it's anything like I remember it at level 75, it brings your def to REALLY low levels. If the debuff was up, that's probably another cause for our failure.

[dasva]

If it's anything like I remember it at level 75, it brings your def to REALLY low levels. If the debuff was up, that's probably another cause for our failure.

It's not just very low. Not sure about on normal mobs but any nm fomors it is -100% def so no matter how much you have it reduces you do 1 (not sure how it stacks with +percentage def boosts though). So yeah they will auto cap pdif against you easily

[Fwahm]

Aegis Schism is -75% defense.

However, I don't think these mobs use it. I'm pretty sure they only use player weaponskills of the weapon they're using, like Bora Axe.

[dasva]

Hmmm odd because the ones in Brothers D'Aurphe have definitely reduced me to 1 def multiple times... maybe I had berserk up I guess

[Fwahm]

Defense down debuffs are additive with each other, so yeah, Berserk (-25%) and Aegis Schism (-75%) will bring you down to 1 defense.

[Tile]

I didnt have a problem with block rate on my Pld with ochain on the Shadows, Skill is only 473. They also seem weaker than 128, think what makes them that hard is they love to SC so much, while super tanking they would constantly do 3 step SCs on me. But even then I never dropped below 90% unless I got nuked. and I could solo monk to 50% in the time it took everyone else to kill the others. As for additional effects from WSs, Didn't notice many, even with the Full break spam from Shadow I never got any stat down, maybe magic evasion or that I would Block hit idk.

[dasva]

Yeah if you blocked hits don't have additional effects

[FaeQueenCory]

If those NMs are actually lvl 128(the content lvl listed in the RoE page), then Aegis with Reprisal up should have about a 13% block rate. <,<; Somehow, I doubt that would reduce overall WS+SC dmg more than Ochain with 100% block rate.

Thank you, Ms. PLDlady.
I recently had an argument in a random PUG with an AA (twofold one too. GEO+BRD>>>BRD+COR and "Ochain/Priwen won't help because they don't block WSs").
I was fairly confident that shield blocks can proc on any physical TP move, AND that Aegis (with or without any buffs) is terribad as physical damage reducer and has been for as long as the level cap has been greater than 75.

Only downside to Ochain I can see is the DEF amount... But I feel that Shield Defense Bonus + capped PDT more than compensates.
But that's moot for this discussion since Aegis is in just as dire straits.

[Martel]

Thank you, Ms. PLDlady.

The hell?

I recently had an argument in a random PUG with an AA (twofold one too. GEO+BRD>>>BRD+COR and "Ochain/Priwen won't help because they don't block WSs").
I was fairly confident that shield blocks can proc on any physical TP move, AND that Aegis (with or without any buffs) is terribad as physical damage reducer and has been for as long as the level cap has been greater than 75.

Only downside to Ochain I can see is the DEF amount... But I feel that Shield Defense Bonus + capped PDT more than compensates.
But that's moot for this discussion since Aegis is in just as dire straits.

Anyway...

There are physical attacks that can't be shield blocked. Unfortunately. Usually things like 1000 needles, or throatstab, etc. Also, ranged attacks. Can't block em. Totally retarded, but can't.

Aegis was actually the best shield for physical dmg reduction as well, iirc, right up until Ochain(lvl90) came out. Aegis had a bit higher base block rate than size 3 shields(5% more), and higher base dmg-(Again, 5% more.) But clinched things with it's massively high, at the time, def. All this before considering the MDT, although it wasn't cap breaking at that time. Then Ochain came along, and kicked the shit outta Aegis.

The issue with Ochain isn't so much the def, as it is the rather low base block dmg-. Although the two are related. Ochain's base block dmg- is 40%. After DEF and shield defense bonus you get 66%. Aegis' base is 55%, and hits 81% after def and SDB. Your typical size 3 shield has a base of 50%. But since ilvl shield have so much def, they end up passing Aegis' block dmg- by.

[Tile]

The issue with Ochain isn't so much the def, as it is the rather low base block dmg-. Although the two are related. Ochain's base block dmg- is 40%. After DEF and shield defense bonus you get 66%. Aegis' base is 55%, and hits 81% after def and SDB. Your typical size 3 shield has a base of 50%. But since ilvl shield have so much def, they end up passing Aegis' block dmg- by.

thats why I like the 119 Emp hands, they give +3 to shield def bonus

[Sechs]

So triboxed some Voso... it is indeed rather evasive. With 1200 acc I wasn't quite capped. Didn't hit too hard like 60-100 with 68 pdt (run). Didn't seem too accurate though like I'd say I evade almost half the hits on run with around 750 evasion.

Has enparalyze that is either not too accurate or doesn't proc too often. But blaster is insanely accurate as in I only saw 1-2 normal resists (not the you resist the spell ones) in 10 fights with barpara barblizzara fire runes and plflug and 320 meva. Para from either source is ridiculously potent. Ie I'd get para'd out of 80-90% of the flashes or paralynas I'd do after. Silence didn't seem too accurate though

Doesn't seem to use charged whisker often... like in those 10 fights I saw it 3 times total. Does decent dmg but nothing too scary. Like around 1000-1200 in just capped mdt. My whm easily survived when it ran in to rebuff.

At lower hps (50% I think) uses blink of peril. At even lower (20-25%) it starts doing 2 moves back to back). Dmg from blink appears to be reduced by either dt or bdt but not mdt/pdt. In my tanking set seemed to reduce me to about 30% of the hp I had before it used it which was about how much dt I had. For some reason the couple of times it hit my whm it did way less dmg not really sure why since even with the nice dark rings it still should've had less of every kind of dt. Maybe how close to directly facing it matters or distance matters too. Which was nice so that when it did them back to back the 2nd one did hardly any dmg though because I was already low would get me near melee range. It also seems to remove you from the hate list for a second or 2 as every time it used it it would go after my whm but any action brought it back and even no actions it would come back a few seconds later.

Scariest thing really is paralyze especially if it manages to get your person with paralyna

For a level 122 he has a hell of an eva.
At 1180 I was at like what, 70% acc? A bit above maybe.
Only uses charged whisker if you WS from the sides or from behind.
Which is why it happened rarely to you Dasva, you were alone trioing.

Once we learned that trick it's a pretty easy nm, just annoyingly high eva for a 122.

[FaeQueenCory]

The hell?

Anyway...

There are physical attacks that can't be shield blocked. Unfortunately. Usually things like 1000 needles, or throatstab, etc. Also, ranged attacks. Can't block em. Totally retarded, but can't.

Aegis was actually the best shield for physical dmg reduction as well, iirc, right up until Ochain(lvl90) came out. Aegis had a bit higher base block rate than size 3 shields(5% more), and higher base dmg-(Again, 5% more.) But clinched things with it's massively high, at the time, def. All this before considering the MDT, although it wasn't cap breaking at that time. Then Ochain came along, and kicked the shit outta Aegis.

The issue with Ochain isn't so much the def, as it is the rather low base block dmg-. Although the two are related. Ochain's base block dmg- is 40%. After DEF and shield defense bonus you get 66%. Aegis' base is 55%, and hits 81% after def and SDB. Your typical size 3 shield has a base of 50%. But since ilvl shield have so much def, they end up passing Aegis' block dmg- by.

LoL I associate you with PLD cause of the PLD guide on FFXIAH and your icon.

And it was specifically in regards to AAHM, cause stuff like CDC and other literal WS TP moves are shield blockable right?

thats why I like the 119 Emp hands, they give +3 to shield def bonus

AND that sweet +30ish acc and atk on a job that wouldn't be hurt for more of either?
PLUS triggering set bonus when paired with the BiS legs... (Did some testing recently, and now I wonder about the +2 empy set, though I fully admit they might have changed it, but out of 1000 hits, 23 were absorbs..which if I account for luckiness, I'm seeing a simple X% based on number of pieces. eg: 2=2%)
Totes worth the loss of any DT in that slot, IMO. (Not like that's hard to make up elsewhere for PLD too)