Feedback Thread (Petitions to Ban Guartz Go Here)

[BerenTebogo]

I love what is going on here so much that I want to give it a hug.

[Gredival]

Bane didn't do fuck all in that thread. Instead, here comes some nobody mod who will now direct discussions that he hasn't be involved in. In case it wasn't clear, Gredival was both moderating/directing discussion, and participating in discussion, which I was told was something that wouldn't be happening.

- Doing fuck all in a thread
- Directing discussion

Choose one. Bane was trying to remain neutral, so he wasn't participating. However, the thread was devolving to the same shit "Stop being an oppressive bigot with your microaggressions" vs. "You're a whiney SJW" because of that.

So I stepped in and redirected the thread substantively. Doing so required I actually post on the content, so I did.

The only thing I did that was enforced by my position as moderator was banning hey, at her own request, and setting down the rule to address/reference transgender individuals by the pronoun of their request or the pronoun that corresponds with their self-identified gender.

The first could have been done by any moderator, I simply did it myself because hey requested it and had proven not to be able to extricate herself from a discussion she obviously wanted no part of. The second was because the debate on that had been CLEARLY settled in my opinion, in hey's favor I might add, and it was detracting from the conversation to keep revisiting that topic.

I only set grounds of what could be discussed, I did not (with the exception of what gender pronouns to use) set grounds about what could not be discussed. In other words, I did not use my position in any way to railroad a discussion, I merely directed the conversation by identifying for other people the issues at hand.

Someone told me something interesting. BG has now driven out 3 out of the 4 out trans people who have posted here, and the 4th person never participates in any sort of trans issues discussion. And yet, despite my PLEADING in here to create a safer space for trans folk, instead this nobody mod says they are "thin-skinned people" and that we now have to BRING OUT THE LOGIC MAN BOX IN ORDER TO EXPLORE ALL ASPECTS OF WHY WE THINK THIS IS OFFENSIVE AND HOW ALL TRANSPHOBIA MUST NOW BE PROVEN IN ORDER TO CURB OFFENSIVE DISCUSSION.

I said it before, I'll say it again, this is a discussion/debate forum; NOT a safe space. Discussion includes a back and forth. This is not a forum where otherized individuals, be they LBGT, women, and racial/ethnic minorities, who have experienced oppression, to dictate what is the appropriate way for everyone else to treat them.

People are entitled to all due respect when they post, as a matter of civility. But people participate in discussions at their own risk. People will be entitled to express their opinions, however wrong, so long as it is done within the rules of the forum. If someone can't participate here without getting offended that others can disagree with them, then they should not participate.

Keep in mind, these are the same mod teams that would drop banhammer in a second if someone went into a gay thread and started calling everyone "faggots", because in the cisnormative set of rules in place, that absolutely qualifies as an offensive slur with no second guessing or needing to be proven.

And no one in the trans thread did anything close to approaching that in the trans thread.

hey said that it was offensive to use "transgendered" vs. "transgender." Another poster disagreed, argued it was a matter of grammar, and posted an article on the subject by a trans-woman who advocated for the use of "transgendered." It directly answered hey's challenge that the "-ed" was offensive because it inherently made the transgender individual the recipient of an action.

hey doesn't get to cut off that debate by claiming she is offended.

And to be clear, my philosophy is that the use of ANY word should be permitted so long as the user is presenting a defensible argument for its use and not using it with the intent to be offensive.

And all of this bullshit after hey said she was a suicidal trans woman.

Oh wait, Gredival wouldn't know that because he's some NOBODY WHO CAME OUT OF NOWHERE. Considering how unsafe BG has been for trans folk, I hope other trans posters don't come out. We could save some lives, considering it's the fucking dark ages in here.

I will not cut off discussion because one user is upset over the discussion. And if you read through the thread, many users made a point to distinguish niro and hey. The negative response to hey was almost entirely a result of how she chose to engage the community, not because of the fact she was transgender.

niro's posts were informative. hey repeatedly relied on the "Your disagreement with me stems from your ignorance/intolerance." Guess which one went over better with members?

And actually I did know that. She was banned temporarily for her own safety because she was repeatedly demonstrated she was not in the correct mental space to participate in the discussion without taking it too personally. She was the one who wanted the ban lifted. Then when she was told that she couldn't dictate what users participated in the trans thread based on what she found offensive, she withdrew from the thread, only to come back and try again.

What an ABSOLUTE FUCKING JOKE.

A+

[Salodin]

Goddayum.

[Salodin]

And Mazmaz I'm warning you now. Go on a PM rampage to me and I will fucking ban you. I am not in the mood for this shit. This sub forum needs nuked. Today.

To be fair, no one really cared for this sub to begin with. The only reason it came about was because general was getting clogged with too many threads for small things, and the mega threads were impossible to hold a conversation in. To do what you want you'd have to forbid the topics themselves; good luck with that.

[Ksandra]

I actually cannot for the life of me fathom how anyone could be upset with that thread.

Somehow people are supposed to know everything without knowing anything.

I think the thread is probably one of the most mellow informative threads we've had on BG lately. People like to learn by talking things through. This is not a new concept.

[FNH]

Someone told me something interesting. BG has now driven out 3 out of the 4 out trans people who have posted here,

Just to be clear, Solanis, celeste, and hey all pretty much removed themselves. And were all cisphobes.

[Tyrath]

Honestly it was one of the more civil threads I've seen around here. Gredival did a great job of directing the discussion away from a circular argument imo. You can't complain that mods close threads too much/too quickly and then also complain when they have to step in to redirect a discussion so that the thread doesn't get locked.

[NynJa]

Just to be clear, Solanis, celeste, and hey all pretty much removed themselves. And were all cisphobes.

I'm presuming this thread chased celeste off, based on what I can find on search.

This is the same shit that chased hey off. "you're not giving us special treatment, so you're oppressing us, fuck you bigots".


I'm not sure what chased solanis off, unless posts were deleted, but the last post from them that pops up is:

is it better to be a jew banker, a jew doctor, a jew lawyer, or a jew movie producer?

I'm pretty sure that would get anyone banned!

So yeah, the only one chasing those transgenders away was themselves.

[FNH]

I'm not sure what chased solanis off, unless posts were deleted, but the last post from them that pops up is:


I'm pretty sure that would get anyone banned!

So yeah, the only one chasing those transgenders away was themselves.

Must have been deleted. Solanis had a pretty big meltdown.

[Andalusian girls]

i'd have to go with banker

[Aksannyi]

So yeah, the only one chasing those transgenders away was themselves.

I know this isn't the thread for it, it has been stated multiple times that transgender is not a noun.

[NynJa]

I know this isn't the thread for it, it has been stated multiple times that transgender is not a noun.

So yeah, the only one chasing those men away was themselves. <- acceptable

So yeah, the only one chasing those women away was themselves. <- acceptable

So yeah, the only one chasing those transgenders away was themselves. <- unacceptable?


Did I miss the memo of why thats unacceptable? Actually, can a mod move the last two posts to the appropriate thread, since this isnt the right spot.

[Gredival]

So yeah, the only one chasing those men away was themselves. <- acceptable

So yeah, the only one chasing those women away was themselves. <- acceptable

So yeah, the only one chasing those transgenders away was themselves. <- unacceptable?

Did I miss the memo of why thats unacceptable?

It's been explained multiple times in the trans thread. The use of an adjective distinguishes them based on a characteristic. Using it as a noun implies that a certain characteristic is defining such that people should be classified and segregated based upon that characteristic.

TL;DR Compare it to "gays" or "homos" as nouns versus as adjectives: "We are letting homosexual people marry" vs. "We are letting homos marry."

It's not a sticking point for all people, especially depending on the context, but you should be able to see why it could be.

[Salodin]

I'm getting some major deja vu here...

Didn't we go through this already? Why does it need to be beaten again? There is no consensus on the word, and as long as contextually there is no insult trying to be made then no one should be complaining.

[Charismatic]

It's been explained multiple times in the trans thread.

TL;DR Compare it to "gays" or "homos" as nouns versus as adjectives: "We are letting homosexual people marry" vs. "We are letting homos marry."

Funnily enough, I actually don't see the problem with using gays or homos there either but I guess if someone feels butthurt about it... if you care I guess you could modify your language. (Seems pointless to me though)

[Blubbartron]

Since Bane is likely gonna move all these posts anyway, I figured I'd share this link suggesting that GLAAD pushing "transgender person" as proper is responsible for the rise of treating "transgender" as a noun. I thoroughly enjoy the conundrum it puts the SJWs in where they want to break the rules of language in one way, and then get all pissy when people accept it and use the word in a logically consistent manner from there forward. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

http://tranifesto.com/2013/11/11/ask...nder-a-gender/

[NynJa]

I'm getting some major deja vu here...

Didn't we go through this already? Why does it need to be beaten again? There is no consensus on the word, and as long as contextually there is no insult trying to be made then no one should be complaining.

It must have been while I was temped for using someones idiotic argument against them ^____^ (who is now on their own time out ^________________________^)

[Brill Weave]

It must have been while I was temped for using someones idiotic argument against them ^____^ (who is now on their own time out ^________________________^)

I can almost feel you smiling through the monitor right now.

[Brill Weave]

I don't remember what caused Solanis to peace out but I remember Celeste going absolutely batshit insane in a couple of threads.

[thetruepandagod]

Solanis was something jew related in one of the elvis threads i believe, pretty sure he just went insane after some israel/palestine thing