Feedback Thread (Petitions to Ban Guartz Go Here)

[Blubbartron]

I'll refrain from giving my response until Bane says it's kosher to do so. Otherwise it seems like we're dragging an argument from one thread into this one, where it doesn't belong.

[BaneTheBrawler]

Bane said to chill out, I'm assuming it's just a temporary cooldown period.

You assume correctly.

The discussion had devolved into a literal argument over semantics, and things were getting heated. I felt it would be best to let people cool off for a while. I'll probably unlock it later this evening, or early tomorrow, depending on how things go.

[Mazmaz]

Instead of locking a thread for a cool down period how about giving people who create an unsafe space for others a time out? The "literal argument over semantics" literally goes hand-in-hand with creating a hostile environment towards trans individuals. It's one thing if they don't understand why or continue to ignore explanations and rules in the OP, but it's another if the mod doesn't know enough about the subject matter to be able to tell this is what they're doing. If you're confused or unsure of why those semantics are being met with fierce resistance Bane, I'm sure one of us can explain it to you. Otherwise, it's pretty obvious which individuals continue to go in transgender threads for the purpose of creating hostile environment towards trans people.

[Gredival]

Instead of locking a thread for a cool down period how about giving people who create an unsafe space for others a time out? The "literal argument over semantics" literally goes hand-in-hand with creating a hostile environment towards trans individuals. It's one thing if they don't understand why or continue to ignore explanations and rules in the OP, but it's another if the mod doesn't know enough about the subject matter to be able to tell this is what they're doing. If you're confused or unsure of why those semantics are being met with fierce resistance Bane, I'm sure one of us can explain it to you. Otherwise, it's pretty obvious which individuals continue to go in transgender threads for the purpose of creating hostile environment towards trans people.

Two points.

1) The timeout for the entire thread is also meant to help prevent a flame war from breaking out when Bane and the other moderators are not prepared to watch the discussion closely for an extend period of time. You could give one person a time-out for something they said, but their comment will produce a few more pages of argument during the time-out. If a moderator isn't watching closely, that's a recipe for irreparable damage in this particular forum. Certainly it's not ideal, but it's a necessary stop gap at points. We hope that after an adjustment period, certain users will learn to stop shitposting before their access to this forum is restricted.

2) This isn't about unsafe space. Discourse is NOT and SHOULD NEVER be shut down just because some posters feel uncomfortable, disrespected, etc. All users are all expected to adhere to the rules, which include treating others with a certain level of decorum (in this forum in particular). So long as the rules are obeyed, a poster with "thin skin" or a "soft skull" doesn't get to call a time-out or eject people because they are taking personal offense. The onus is on them to exit the discussion if they dislike how they are being treated when that treatment is within the rules.

There's a fine line here. A person is not going to be infracted or otherwise ejected from a conversation if they have legitimate disagreement, regardless of how that disagreement offends someone. However, shitposting and trolling (disagreeing just to piss the other side off or offend someone) will definitely earn timeouts. And ultimately, that's a discretionary call by the moderation team. That may sound nebulous, but in effect, we know very well the people who are just posting to push buttons.

To use the trans thread as an example, if a person comes forth with an argument that pronouns should based on the subject's biological sex (i.e. your assigned sex at birth until surgery) and they defend that argument, at that point they have the right to write their posts to that interpretation. I don't care who gets offended by the person's "incorrect" usage of he vs. she at this point. But if they get challenged on their viewpoint, and they have to resort to "Well that's just my opinion man" as a defense, then they are going to be expected to conform their posts' pronouns properly.

Why? Because in the first situation, it's a disagreement about proper semantics as it relates to the their of the topic of discussion. It's a core point of debate as to whether trans individuals are entitled to the pronouns of choice as part of equal rights. How posts are written and how people are addressed in this forum is a small part of that. But in the second situation they are just incorrectly using pronouns as an ad hominem.

(Upon reviewing the thread, I don't think any intentional misuse of pronouns to troll was occurring. Bane may have felt that the sides were inching closer to an outright confrontation though.)

[BerenTebogo]

I like to give the non-scientists who enter certain debates around here a lot of shit, for the hell of it.

But genuinely Gredival, whatever shitty non-science thing you study, keep it up. You're good at it. Always delivering great logic where logic is not wanted.

[Cream Soda]

meh not worth it. Someone needs to implement topic bans though

[thetruepandagod]

I like to give the non-scientists who enter certain debates around here a lot of shit, for the hell of it.

But genuinely Gredival, whatever shitty non-science thing you study, keep it up. You're good at it. Always delivering great logic where logic is not wanted.

He does

Spoiler: show

[Andalusian girls]

5/5 Justinians

[Moss]

the thread locks just seem like a terrible way to handle things. there's nothing wrong with a heated discussion

the trans thread was locked an hour after the last post and has now been that way for 12 hours. are we still waiting for people to "cool off?" do we really expect a mod to be able to track all of these threads as posts are made?

[arus2001]

Instead of locking a thread for a cool down period how about giving people who create an unsafe space for others a time out? The "literal argument over semantics" literally goes hand-in-hand with creating a hostile environment towards trans individuals. It's one thing if they don't understand why or continue to ignore explanations and rules in the OP, but it's another if the mod doesn't know enough about the subject matter to be able to tell this is what they're doing. If you're confused or unsure of why those semantics are being met with fierce resistance Bane, I'm sure one of us can explain it to you. Otherwise, it's pretty obvious which individuals continue to go in transgender threads for the purpose of creating hostile environment towards trans people.

I kept my distance from the thread because, due to past experience, anytime someone isn't 100% on the trans wagon, odds are those who are are going to go out of their way to dogpile and make those people into enemies when they could've been allies. I was already seeing the signs of that building, though, so not at all surprised at the cooldown. Some really need to learn you don't endear people to a cause with, "You're wrong, GTFO!" which essentially came from 3 people in one form or another.

Maybe some of it is just a case of, "It's the internet, I HAVE to be right!"-ism, but I generally didn't see anyone approaching the matter with the sole intent to demean or marginalize the group, even with potentially mentioning more accepted labels--which apparently is a trigger of its own. The focus the Crying Game scenario got also went on a bit too long, and not exactly for the right reasons. Further elaboration would really just be reigniting the thread here at this point, though. And given those signs, I can't say I'm inclined to continue things there when/if it re-opens, not because I believe I'd get in trouble, but because it's not worth the stress. And that's probably saying a lot from me given my bleeding heart, white knight tendencies.

[FNH]

Two points. snip

I like this guy.

question, why was it locked an hour later even though it didn't spiral out of control?

[Abandon]

because mods = ???

[BaneTheBrawler]

Because that's when I got up, read it, and saw where it was heading. I might be new to modding, but I am not new to Poopdeck. We have regulars, who have patterns.

[shepardG]

I like to give the non-scientists who enter certain debates around here a lot of shit, for the hell of it.

But genuinely Gredival, whatever shitty non-science thing you study, keep it up. You're good at it. Always delivering great logic where logic is not wanted.

i lol'd

[Mazmaz]

"I'm learning a lot about trans issues in spite of the only trans person in the room". What a fucking joke.

Bane didn't do fuck all in that thread. Instead, here comes some nobody mod who will now direct discussions that he hasn't be involved in. In case it wasn't clear, Gredival was both moderating/directing discussion, and participating in discussion, which I was told was something that wouldn't be happening.

Someone told me something interesting. BG has now driven out 3 out of the 4 out trans people who have posted here, and the 4th person never participates in any sort of trans issues discussion. And yet, despite my PLEADING in here to create a safer space for trans folk, instead this nobody mod says they are "thin-skinned people" and that we now have to BRING OUT THE LOGIC MAN BOX IN ORDER TO EXPLORE ALL ASPECTS OF WHY WE THINK THIS IS OFFENSIVE AND HOW ALL TRANSPHOBIA MUST NOW BE PROVEN IN ORDER TO CURB OFFENSIVE DISCUSSION.

Keep in mind, these are the same mod teams that would drop banhammer in a second if someone went into a gay thread and started calling everyone "faggots", because in the cisnormative set of rules in place, that absolutely qualifies as an offensive slur with no second guessing or needing to be proven.

And all of this bullshit after hey said she was a suicidal trans woman. Oh wait, Gredival wouldn't know that because he's some NOBODY WHO CAME OUT OF NOWHERE. Considering how unsafe BG has been for trans folk, I hope other trans posters don't come out. We could save some lives, considering it's the fucking dark ages in here.

What an ABSOLUTE FUCKING JOKE.

[Xno Kappa]

tl;dr

[Salodin]

tl;dr

Be glad hey left; She's suicidal, and nobody wants that kinda bologna on their conscious. Apparently Gred modding and posting breaks guidelines/rules set forth by the mods themselves, the topic is useless with out trans people chiming in, and we're all terrible people.

He tries to raise a point about the word faggot being as offensive to homosexuals as the words in the transsexual thread are to trans people, but he doesn't pay attention to the thread or he'd know we addressed that.

[Brill Weave]

I'm not involved in any of this shit. Mazmaz is now on time out. Anyone else that causes me to come back in here gets an even longer time out. Jesus fucking Christ some of you are like five year olds throwing a fucking hissy fit because people have a different opinion. Don't like it, leave. The end.

[Brill Weave]

And Mazmaz I'm warning you now. Go on a PM rampage to me and I will fucking ban you. I am not in the mood for this shit. This sub forum needs nuked. Today.

[Blubbartron]

So what I'm getting from this is Mazmaz is shitting all over Gredival because he applies strict logic and rational thought instead of letting emotions dictate his thoughts/views?

Also, for what it's worth, it seems it's more honest to say we've "driven out" (read: not put up with their bullshit) several hardcore SJWs who think that anyone that doesn't immediately conform to what they say is right is a bigot/homophobe/transphobe/whatever. That kind of shit does not promote discussion or learning.