Cosby Rape Allegations

[wipers]

"Like, if suddenly it comes into light that Mother Theresa raped someone."

That is the best argument I've read all day. Wait was the topic again ?

[archibaldcrane]

It's especially relevant given that Mother Teresa's platform was telling destitute Indian orphans to get their lives together and stop blaming others.

[kuronosan]

I try to separate ideality from ideology.

[Sho]

For some people, it seems that no matter what the message, they will give them crap because they dare to disagree with the majority. I recall Bill Cosby getting all sorts of heat years ago for saying that black culture should stop blaming everything on the white man and take some responsibility for themselves. Crazy, radical ideas like actually be a father and not just a sperm donor, or get involved in your kid's life and help them with school.

Article of some of the stuff he said back then

Essentially, what I said in Bill Cosby's thread can be applied to Charles Barkley as well (minus the allegations of being a rapist, obviously):

You're not mistaken at all. However, in that lies the root cause and setback for many blacks in lower communities. We are no different from Asians, Indians, Caucasians or Hispanics who don't want to be stereotyped, but we take the greatest offense because of how passionate we can become (due to inherent machismo and past stereotyping across the generations). That's why calling a black person a "nigga" as a non-black, while more seen as a joke now, should still be taken very seriously to the wrong person(s).

The REAL problem is, many (not all) Black people simply don't want to see the truth at all -- they usually fit the stereotype in various situations (black machismo, sagging, baby-mama drama, ebonics, [gang] violence, etc). When this is obviously pointed out by someone, anyone, famous or not, Black people are quick to claim individualism and furthermore state that such thing don't apply to them at all because of said individualism. "We are not a monolith, he/she doesn't speak for me" indeed, he actually does speak for those people more often than not in separate, specific instances. However, Black-Individualism is real and has lead to many changes and leaps forward in science, the arts and popular culture as well.

I'm only able to say such things because I came from the same struggle that others came from too, and I still go back in various ways to impart my own wisdom to anyone who will hear. You can hold onto your African/African-American roots and not fall prey to the Nigga-Stereotype. You can exist in greater society and not let the setbacks of your people hold you back as an individual. Essentially, the other side of the problem is when Black people feel you have to sell out to your own people and become whitewashed or become an Uncle Tom to make it in life. In the same token, just because you are Black and suddenly make it in life doesn't always mean that you as well become disconnected to the plight of the community. It's because of Cosby's lasting connection to his people is the reason why he can be so open and blunt about his words, no matter how painful they are to hear.

All of the problems with Cosby coming to light yet again only undermines (not prove wrong) his words, as he is supposed to be the icon of the "Wholesome [Black] Father Figure" who not only passes down good wisdom, but also practices what he preaches.

However, these facts are blown right the fuck up when Bill Cosby is now outed as a rapist. The facts remain true, but his stature is now invalidated by being a man lacking in morals. Regardless of what is being said about Cosby, I believe in much of what he and Barkley have been saying. However, what I don't agree with is their method of applying their reasoning to the greater African-American majority.

Headspace (and Leroy) are also correct; white people with a racist agenda eat this shit up, every time. They love to see a seeming Uncle Tom blow up their people to validate their claims of Black People being an ignorant and lesser group of people.

---

The real problem with Black people that no one is addressing is that of Black Individualism in the communities. This brings upon a unique crab mentality and brings everyone down in tandem. If anyone wants me to write more indeed on this, I gladly will.

[ronin sparthos]

No fuck that. That dude got on his high horse about black people calling each other niggas and told them to stop saying it in their routines. Then after his set was done he went backstage, gave some chicks some roofies, and gave em the business.

But white people eat up those uncle toms to validate their racist feelings.

Dunno what being a rapist has to do with making some pretty solid points that the BET crowd was obviously not feeling.

Is Cosby morally bankrupt for his actions? Yup.
Does he look like a damn hypocrite? Yup.
Is he a disappointment for further undermining his race? Yup.
Does it change the fact that he engaged in some real talk? Nope.

My greatest anger is that the Cosby essentially has thrown the game to racists, the black community will once again sidestep the issues to excoriate Cosby and kids are down yet another solid role model in exchange for another fucking rapper, basketball star or football player who can't keep his grubby little paws off his wifes face. Wonderful. I'd go eat ice cream and drown myself in a marathon of Tyler Perry specials but I do value getting back to sanity eventually.

NDT and Cornel West, don't fail me now.

[Chun Liroy]

I think you're misunderstanding the purpose of black celebrities, whether it be sports, music or anything else, as role models for black youth. First of all, I don't think ANYONE advocates what Ray Rice or Adrian peterson did, and white sports athletes have done just as bad or worse. Being a bad person isn't bound by race. In reference to Rap music, sure it's not necessarily a good influence on what their saying, so we might be hurting outselves in that regard, but I can guarantee you that white consumers and industry executives influence the content more than you think.

[Sho]

Dunno what being a rapist has to do with making some pretty solid points that the BET crowd was obviously not feeling.

Is Cosby morally bankrupt for his actions? Yup.
Does he look like a damn hypocrite? Yup.
Is he a disappointment for further undermining his race? Yup.
Does it change the fact that he engaged in some real talk? Nope.

My greatest anger is that the Cosby essentially has thrown the game to racists, the black community will once again sidestep the issues to excoriate Cosby and kids are down yet another solid role model in exchange for another fucking rapper, basketball star or football player who can't keep his grubby little paws off his wifes face. Wonderful. I'd go eat ice cream and drown myself in a marathon of Tyler Perry specials but I do value getting back to sanity eventually.

NDT and Cornel West, don't fail me now.

The problem with Cosby is that it presents yet another distraction from the real problems of our community. Whether he did it or not he will now forever been seen as someone who shouldn't be taken seriously in conversation.

The problems with black rappers, and to the lesser extent sports players, is that they have the greatest potential to move the communities as role models to the next level, but never take up the chance to do something great with their speaking voices. You can't just give donations to the communities, you have to re-partake in the struggle and give back by teaching the youth, face-to-face. I'm not saying rappers/sports stars don't do this already, just that the "right people" aren't doing it right now. If they are, it's more or less a small time publicity stunt.

[ronin sparthos]

Hahahaha

[tyven]

The problem with Cosby is that it presents yet another distraction from the real problems of our community. Whether he did it or not he will now forever been seen as someone who shouldn't be taken seriously in conversation.

The problems with black rappers, and to the lesser extent sports players, is that they have the greatest potential to move the communities as role models to the next level, but never take up the chance to do something great with their speaking voices. You can't just give donations to the communities, you have to re-partake in the struggle and give back by teaching the youth, face-to-face. I'm not saying rappers/sports stars don't do this already, just that the "right people" aren't doing it right now. If they are, it's more or less a small time publicity stunt.

we need yeezus more than ever

[ronin sparthos]

I think you're misunderstanding the purpose of black celebrities, whether it be sports, music or anything else, as role models for black youth. First of all, I don't think ANYONE advocates what Ray Rice or Adrian peterson did, and white sports athletes have done just as bad or worse. Being a bad person isn't bound by race. In reference to Rap music, sure it's not necessarily a good influence on what their saying, so we might be hurting outselves in that regard, but I can guarantee you that white consumers and industry executives influence the content more than you think.

In the black community, no one is held in higher regard than our performers and sports stars both of which on the whole make for generally shit role models. Those same people can trumpet that they aren't role models all they want but blacks on the level look to them as measures of success. I'd say pastors come in a distant third. As much as a Honey Boo Boo or a Kim K and pals may make the white community look "bad", anyone can name dozens of other positive influences that drown her ilk out. Besides, those reality shows are generally just exploitative towards poor/desperate people.

Ask some young black kids who they look up to and weep. It's still commonplace to think you need to either throw a ball or sing a tune to make it and that is the crux of the problem. Poets, writers, economists, scientists? Thats white people stuff.

Being bad isn't bound by race but when the people you uplift/worship are essentially all terrible individuals, it speaks volumes and reflects back on you. Now of course, there are plenty of people out there doing good in the world but blacks have a terrible PR image. Cosby made these points to some extent but in the wake of all his misdeeds we're moving backwards yet again. Hurray.

[ronin sparthos]

The problem with Cosby is that it presents yet another distraction from the real problems of our community. Whether he did it or not he will now forever been seen as someone who shouldn't be taken seriously in conversation.

The problems with black rappers, and to the lesser extent sports players, is that they have the greatest potential to move the communities as role models to the next level, but never take up the chance to do something great with their speaking voices. You can't just give donations to the communities, you have to re-partake in the struggle and give back by teaching the youth, face-to-face. I'm not saying rappers/sports stars don't do this already, just that the "right people" aren't doing it right now. If they are, it's more or less a small time publicity stunt.

Because they don't give a shit. They got theirs and that's all that matters to them. Their actions have spoken for them and in turn they have decided to abandon their kin to their own devices while they lavish in excess... at least until they go broke and invoke Jesus to garner sympathy. The whole thing is pathetic yet works time and time again with every star that soars into the upper atmosphere only to burn out. Divided we fall might as well be the motto of the black community on the whole, unless you need to write off something on your taxes. Then you build a community center, ribbon cut, give some autographs out and get the fuck outta there.

Kaching.

Jay-Z and Beyonce have made this all but crystal clear - 'go get your own, we don't owe you shit' - and they are the black communities greatest 'treasures'? People that straight up loathe us (yet depend) to patronize them?

[Chun Liroy]

I just believe that despite them being in those role model positions, the problem doesn't lie with what they do with their lives or what they represent, but rather what the communities decide to worship as themselves. Why are parents allowing their young children to look up Jay Z? It's not Jay Z's job to raise every black child in the ghetto. He made music for adults, it's the adults jobs to filter what they're exposing to their children. Same thing goes for athletes. Here's a kid that just fucking really good at running and catching a ball coming fresh from college, why should he suddenly have a "responsibility" to represent his race to youth? The problem lies within society and the black communities much more than how the "role models" act. If that was the case it could be applied to any minority, but I don't think that's the case when it comes to mexican, asian etc. etc. or even white.

[Kuya]

Perhaps the role models are simply a reflection of problems within and outside of the black community.

[Xno Kappa]

Didn't Charles Barkley flat-out said he's nobody's role model, and if kids look up to him then that's on the parents?

[quannum]

[ronin sparthos]

I just believe that despite them being in those role model positions, the problem doesn't lie with what they do with their lives or what they represent, but rather what the communities decide to worship as themselves. Why are parents allowing their young children to look up Jay Z? It's not Jay Z's job to raise every black child in the ghetto. He made music for adults, it's the adults jobs to filter what they're exposing to their children. Same thing goes for athletes. Here's a kid that just fucking really good at running and catching a ball coming fresh from college, why should he suddenly have a "responsibility" to represent his race to youth? The problem lies within society and the black communities much more than how the "role models" act. If that was the case it could be applied to any minority, but I don't think that's the case when it comes to mexican, asian etc. etc. or even white.

The rappers, sports stars and performers have been given power and it's their responsibility to use it or face an indictment of character. I think I'll steal Lucavi's tired but apt statement here: With great power comes great responsibility. These people are free to play the 'not my problem' card and in turn I'm free to think them selfish, empty, vapid people who cant see beyond their next multi-million dollar contract they've been so blessed with. Funny enough, it's this mutual antagonism that will ensure black people go nowhere other than to prisons. Divided we fall, again.

The vacant invocations of God and family so often thrown out at a moments notice do not cloak inaction when your community worships you and your response is to then turn your back on them. Should blacks change? Of course. Boycott even. But lets be serious, it's easier if those with money did something, other than throw out scraps of PR.

If you're black and lived in this country for any significant amount of time, you know the issues. You may not have asked to be the voice of you community or to get political but neither did many performers in the bad old days of Civil Rights and guess what? Some of them turned out. Put their skin in the game. Fought for something. Won something. You have money, you got somewhere, so use it and quit begging me to watch your awful reality shows when you end up broke or throw around your money.

No one needs these people to march but the silence from these 'pillars' (I can't help but laugh here) of the community every time some black issue hits the headlines is not lost on me. Hell, at least Barkley has something, anything to say.

[Mazmaz]

I love when people criticize black culture for essentially not being like white culture.

Why can't these black folks just integrate into our colonial way of life that we've tried so hard to create in the last 200 years?

[Chun Liroy]

The rappers, sports stars and performers have been given power and it's their responsibility to use it or face an indictment of character. I think I'll steal Lucavi's tired but apt statement here: With great power comes great responsibility. These people are free to play the 'not my problem' card and in turn I'm free to think them selfish, empty, vapid people who cant see beyond their next multi-million dollar contract they've been so blessed with. Funny enough, it's this mutual antagonism that will ensure black people go nowhere other than to prisons. Divided we fall, again.

The vacant invocations of God and family so often thrown out at a moments notice do not cloak inaction when your community worships you and your response is to then turn your back on them. Should blacks change? Of course. Boycott even. But lets be serious, it's easier if those with money did something, other than throw out scraps of PR.

If you're black and lived in this country for any significant amount of time, you know the issues. You may not have asked to be the voice of you community or to get political but neither did many performers in the bad old days of Civil Rights and guess what? Some of them turned out. Put their skin in the game. Fought for something. Won something. You have money, you got somewhere, so use it and quit begging me to watch your awful reality shows when you end up broke or throw around your money.

No one needs these people to march but the silence from these 'pillars' (I can't help but laugh here) of the community every time some black issue hits the headlines is not lost on me. Hell, at least Barkley has something, anything to say.

I really just disagree that they also stand around and do nothing. There's a multitude of atheletes helping out in their communities every year. I don't care if it's for PR, if a dude meets with children and helps build a park, then what does it matter if it's a "PR stunt" or not, they're still helping. You seem to just sweep this up and ignore it. When it comes to situations such as Ferguson or Eric Garner, I'm going to be completely honest, what do I care what a basketball player thinks? They're going to say that it's a terrible thing, and no one is going to disagree, but what action can they possibly take. Why are they the ones that need to take responsibility for it and organize... whatever? NOT ONLY THAT, but you have quite a handful of rappers visiting ferguson (Nelly, Talib Kweli, J. Cole), so you can't say they ignore it, we just choose to ignore them. There's plenty of socially conscious artists that try to put forth a movement to better the black culture, but guess what? The community ignores it. That shit don't sell. So like I said, I think the problems lies in the black community's decision to embrace the ignorant culture rather than call attention to those that actually deserve to be labelled as role models. They exist, just don't ignore them.

[Xantavia]

As a white guy, I always had a different view about rap music. When I used to work in the CD section of a store, the rap albums struck me as unusual based on the song listings. Always felt like at least half the songs had a guest artist on them. I saw this as a positive, somebody with some fame helping out an unknown. I'm sure it was done just for the paycheck, but could see a plus to it. Need more guys like MC Hammer to help out his neighborhood, even though it bankrupt him.

But like Chun Liroy alluded to, media doesn't want to talk about positive things celebrities are doing. Ratings come from the bad boys.

[Krandor]

You're talking about something totally different with rap albums usually having a ton of guests on them.