Law Enforcement Discussion (Statistics, ideology)

[BaneTheBrawler]

Let's keep the focus of the discussion on police in general, not Neph, please.

[Ksandra]

I don't white knight terrible medical decisions by medical providers, why does neph expend so much energy white knighting the mouth breathers of his profession. Idgi.

because the police have this idea that they are comrades fighting against citizens.


At some point they need to learn that their job is not about protecting the law. Their job is about protecting citizens and our laws are (well should be) designed on how they are supposed to do that.

[Melena]

I don't think attitude would be difficult to evaluate. Everyone in any workplace knows which of their co-workers have a bad attitude. If you don't know who it is, it is probably you. With it being that easy for the average person to identify the troublemakers, why couldn't cops do the same?

All you have to do is hide it for a year till you are off probation. Once your off that, all a shitty attitude will do is keep you from promotion or a better duty. You think a union will take Officer Swanson is an asshole as reason to terminate?

[Acevalefor]

If his inflammatory, dickhead attitude is a liability that will get someone hurt or killed because he likes to pick fights, yes.

[Nephlite]

Sorry for being a bit behind... Been in the hospital the past few days. Asshole decided to bite his lip open and spit on me. He was positive for TB.

Has Neph discussed what is entailed in the police training he's gone through? Are you trained to remain safe as the top priority as the video claims?

PS. Cop isn't even in the top 10 most dangerous jobs.

I'm trained to take people to jail. In that regard, I am trained to restrain people with equal force that they exhibit as deemed reasonable by objective reasonableness. That includes defending myself or others utilizing approved tactics and restraining techniques that were developed by professional Law Enforcement Officers at the Federal Level. That includes the ability kill them if they try to kill me or another person.

Hasn't talked about his training, but it's been discussed that cop's #1 prerogative is keeping themselves safe, ya

I'd like it if the world operated differently, but on the other hand it does kind of make sense... a cop is just a regular person in a shitty job. I don't feel right throwing on top of a person like that a saintly/selfless "put others before you" atmosphere

Idk, it's a pretty shitty situation imo - because america is more diverse than other countries (?) it makes it difficult for some people who get brought up in a certain area, a certain way, have certain experiences, I probably don't have to be explaining this to you lol, etc, to communicate with other cultures. Often times it's white cop vs black man, and white cop doesn't have the social experience to befriend the guy, or at the very least keep it from escalating.

Here's a video/situation I saw someone say it's what police use sometime in training/education. Warning, someone dies here and the audio could be pretty gut wrenching for some people

The officer was 22 years old, wife, 2 kids. First thing I thought of was the officer was an idiot for not having enough empathy and communication skills... but then I realize he's 22 years old, he must have went right into police officer after high school, had a daughter really early on, and I expect him to have the social intelligence to talk down an old man who obviously has problems with authority?

If police officer was a more prestigious job, yeah, not only would training be different, but you'd also get a whole lot more of the "level-headed" people into service. But because it isn't, you need to train according to the lowest common denominator. At least that's how I made peace with it. I'm sure some of the smarter dudes who go into being a police officer have no issues using their social skills and befriending the people they question, charge, arrest, whatever. Worth noting that a lot of these cop-fuck-up stories the cop involved has had issues before and probably isn't the brightest of the bunch

I'm not above anyone. I am just a regular guy like everyone else. It's the cop haters who think we have this mentality that need to wake up and smell the coffee. Dinkheller is just one of many that die in violent confrontations such as this one, and is a reminder to us of what's on the line.

Isn't that kind of the main problem?

The lowest fucking common denominator has fucking guns and can legally fucking shoot you or choke you for misdemeanors.

What makes you the highest common denominator other than you say you are?

So I think I'm comfortable saying that I'd rather one police officer dies instead of one innocent civilian.

My job is to enforce the law. I'm under no obligation to sacrifice my life for anyone. If I so desire to, and I chose to do so, I will sacrifice my life for someone, but that would be purely on my own volition, not because I am ordered to or because of some oath I took. If you're under the impression that it's better for anyone to die over another... Nevermind. You're a terrible person, so I won't respond to that.

(insert Neph comment about everyone he knows does it all the time)

I don't see regular people like you putting cuffs on police officers when they mess up, or fire them.

I don't think attitude would be difficult to evaluate. Everyone in any workplace knows which of their co-workers have a bad attitude. If you don't know who it is, it is probably you. With it being that easy for the average person to identify the troublemakers, why couldn't cops do the same?

It's hard, mostly for the fact that as most people point out, cops all have a certain personality type and we tend to ignore or completely overlook inconsistencies in peoples performance because of the complex nature of the job. The sad reality is, I may not see some of my coworkers the next day because they may get killed or put in the hospital.

Something was recently in the news saying, im paraphrasing, 75% of cop complaints/violence comes from cops with only a high school education.

googled it..

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...ice-safer.html

Yeah I saw this. Goes without saying that a little experience and education can go a long way with the profession.

I don't white knight terrible medical decisions by medical providers, why does neph expend so much energy white knighting the mouth breathers of his profession. Idgi.

Wouldn't you try to defend what you do if someone was talking shit about your profession? I would like to point out I do my own fair share of pointing out bad behavior...

because the police have this idea that they are comrades fighting against citizens.


At some point they need to learn that their job is not about protecting the law. Their job is about protecting citizens and our laws are (well should be) designed on how they are supposed to do that.

See my response to Maz. Public perception is your idea, and the reality is far from it.

[Byrthnoth]

There are about 700,000 state and local police officers across the nation. Mayo estimates that 25% to 30% have four-year degrees. He says departments have been reluctant to adopt stricter recruiting standards despite evidence suggesting that better-educated cops perform better.

In an analysis of disciplinary cases against Florida cops from 1997 to 2002, the International Association of Chiefs of Police found that officers with only high school educations were the subjects of 75% of all disciplinary actions. Officers with four-year degrees accounted for 11% of such actions.

This is better context from the original article:
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...ducation_x.htm

[Nephlite]

This is better context from the original article:
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...ducation_x.htm

Yeah, thanks for pointing this out. It's a bit better context for what the study actually shows, rather than the inflammatory reporting from The Daily Beast.

It's discipline numbers, not just about complaints/violence that quannum alludes to. And discipline could be anything from forgetting to shine your shoes to violating someones rights. There's a pretty big in-between for stuff like that, and it's pretty unfair to say that less educated people are more violent or get more complaints.

[BerenTebogo]

Where did I ever claim to be the highest common denominator? Lol.

But I'm not some scared, under-educated kid with too much power, too many opinions, and too little life experience. So if you're asking if I consider myself above that: Emphatically yes.

[Melena]

If his inflammatory, dickhead attitude is a liability that will get someone hurt or killed because he likes to pick fights, yes.

Again, good luck proving that to a Union or Internal Affairs. I'm an asshole and a dick to people who I think are shit heads, doesn't mean i'm going to pick a fight or blow your brains out cause I don't like you.

[Nephlite]

Where did I ever claim to be the highest common denominator? Lol.

But I'm not some scared, under-educated kid with too much power, too many opinions, and too little life experience. So if you're asking if I consider myself above that: Emphatically yes.

You sure do make a lot of assumptions about me hahaha. You know shit about me except I'm a cop. And then, you blanket me with a generalization your own ignorance has concocted.

Just because you're educated, or you have a degree does not automatically make you an intelligent or "smart" person. There's millions of examples of this. So take your ignorant opinions and keep them to yourself, especially since I made no assumption of you.

Dick.

[BerenTebogo]

None of that was directed at you. Was directed at the cops who fall directly in line with the descriptors I used, of which there are far too many.

Someone is a bit touchy today, eh?

[Nephlite]

None of that was directed at you. Was directed at the cops who fall directly in line with the descriptors I used, of which there are far too many.

Someone is a bit touchy today, eh?

Where did I ever claim to be the highest common denominator? Lol.

But I'm not some scared, under-educated kid with too much power, too many opinions, and too little life experience. So if you're asking if I consider myself above that: Emphatically yes.

Sure didn't look that way. All is well. You're still a turd.

And yes, I am currently in the hospital with god knows what being pumped in to me to kill a tuberculosis contamination. I'm a bit cranky.

[Melena]

If it makes you feel better Neph, before I took my promotion, I was working at the jail and one of my deputy friends and a nurse got gassed by an inmate. At least the third time he's done that to someone. Deputy got the worst of it, took him a few hours scrubbing his uniform with clorox wipes and giving his report before he could go home and change. Was at the start of a 12hr shift as well.

[Nephlite]

If it makes you feel better Neph, before I took my promotion, I was working at the jail and one of my deputy friends and a nurse got gassed by an inmate. At least the third time he's done that to someone. Deputy got the worst of it, took him a few hours scrubbing his uniform with clorox wipes and giving his report before he could go home and change. Was at the start of a 12hr shift as well.

My guy was just insane, so I feel a bit better than getting shit on by an inmate

It's okay, though. Free donuts and coffee from the cafeteria and they were nice enough to bring me my phone.

[Melena]

My guy was just insane, so I feel a bit better than getting shit on by an inmate

It's okay, though. Free donuts and coffee from the cafeteria and they were nice enough to bring me my phone.

Way to live the stereotype

[Aelfinn]

Way to live the stereotype

seriously tho, who doesn't love donuts?

[Melena]

Depends. Get that jelly filled shit out of here. Chocolate glazed or gtfo

[quannum]

Wouldn't you try to defend what you do if someone was talking shit about your profession? I would like to point out I do my own fair share of pointing out bad behavior...

Yea im with Tyche, I don't get it. The shit is being talked about people who are bad at your profession. Your profession does not punish bad behavior to an adequate level, which in turn creates more bad behavior. At no point do most people become apologist for criminal activity done by their professional peers. There is a real problem when you give an idiot the power to murder without consequences. Or, in general, giving people power over other people creates abuse of power potential that requires more regulation than we're currently seeing.

[Nephlite]

Yea im with Tyche, I don't get it. The shit is being talked about people who are bad at your profession. Your profession does not punish bad behavior to an adequate level, which in turn creates more bad behavior. At no point do most people become apologist for criminal activity done by their professional peers. There is a real problem when you give an idiot the power to murder without consequences. Or, in general, giving people power over other people creates abuse of power potential that requires more regulation than we're currently seeing.

I'm not going to sugar-coat it; I'm attempting to somewhat explain why the police are immune to prosecution of some crimes, and are able to essentially bend and break the law. Because the police have so much power, you have to be able to in order to effectively do your job, which is to enforce the law. There's a lot of misconceptions with what the function of the police is, and what the reality is.

The other part to that is that a lot of people who don't like and resent authority take their frustrations out on the police because we're an easy target (more visible to the public). For whatever reason, either for a negative interaction or an ingrained fear of the police, people tend to be more vocal with the issue who have experienced the two. And it's generally better to educate and reestablish rapport with such a person through dialogue (like we're doing now) except it's much harder not being face to face. Don't have a good answer for that one, just trust me and take my word I'm not out to criticize or judge anyone.

Additionally, I'm taking hits and warnings for attempting to be a nice guy and showing humility when I recognize I'm being a bit of a dick, so hopefully I can continue to keep up conversations before a mod gets butthurt and bans me because I hurt their wittle feewings.

[quannum]

For whatever reason, either for a negative interaction or an ingrained fear of the police, people tend to be more vocal with the issue who have experienced the two. And it's generally better to educate and reestablish rapport with such a person through dialogue (like we're doing now) except it's much harder not being face to face. Don't have a good answer for that one, just trust me and take my word I'm not out to criticize or judge anyone.

We know the reasons though, the other cop thread is full of reasons for blacks (or poor people in general) to not want any interactions with police. The reasons start with unchecked police activity. I understand that it starts with policy, but it also involves hotheads that think they're judge dredd, who should not have passed a psych eval, or whatever eval. You end up justifying yet another murder of yet another unarmed black male because of this reason and that reason and this other reason over here. I think an alternative would be to call out the policy or the behavior that needs to change.

Additionally, I'm taking hits and warnings for attempting to be a nice guy and showing humility when I recognize I'm being a bit of a dick, so hopefully I can continue to keep up conversations before a mod gets butthurt and bans me because I hurt their wittle feewings.

New shitty mods, same as the old shitty mods. we need mod reform. I wish they'd stop modding this section all together.