Street Fighter V: A Preliminary Thread

[Spider-Dan]

What useful information does "average" normal frame advantage tell me?

Nobody cares how negative Guile's n.HP, c.HP, or df.HK are on block. If I do any of those moves in a situation where its possible for you to block, I've made a terrible mistake.

[Don Katsu]

What useful information does "average" normal frame advantage tell me?

Nobody cares how negative Guile's n.HP, c.HP, or df.HK are on block. If I do any of those moves in a situation where its possible for you to block, I've made a terrible mistake.

outside of cr.HK and EX Headbutt what does Urien have that's punishable?

https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2017/...ears-laughter/

end of discussion lol

[shidobu]

My 4th time ever touching gief, but this asshole deserved everything he got

[Weltall]

Lmfao @ Urien video. That goes back to my original post; SFV Urien is so ridiculously easy to win with. Nothing with him is impressive, at all.


---------------In other news----------------------

The BornFree video today was excellent:

https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2017/...ange-wishlist/

The saddest thing I've heard in a long time regarding a fighting game: "I love playing multiple characters in fighting games, but in SFV it just isn't worth it."

[shukudai]

The best way I can think to explain why SFV isn't much fun is that every character's difficult seems on par with say... The ability required to do s.MP > Hayate > FADC > Karakusa. It kind of looks impressive when you execute it, but it's really just landing a footsie into a fireball motion, a dash, and a HCB+K. It just looks flashy.

Literally every character in SFIV plays at that level of difficulty in execution. On one hand, it makes the casual players and those with less execution able to do things they were not able to before. On the other hand, it's really boring after a bit. It makes it less fun to watch for people who know what's going on, because it's so easy to replicate. You could say this relies more on reads and footises, that would also be true. But it's simply the most casual version of a Street Fighter game that exists. It's fun to mess around with friends for a bit, kill an hour online, but if it were any other game, no one would be playing it after a month or two from release. Capcom designed it with this obviously in mind, so they are not backing down from it.

Also for relevance, BornFree's video, I agree, was brilliant. Or rather, incredibly freaking obvious. I'm sure there are people who work at Capcom, who know all this stuff too and were incredibly frustrated, and likely had no choice in what goes into the game. $$$, release dates, etc. Just really sad they haven't fixed it.

[Deejay]

Yeah I'm pretty much bored with this game. Doesn't feel fun and it's kinda killed my drive to travel this year


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[JeanClaudVanDamme]

Even today, after all my time shitting on this game, I am STILL blown away at the decision to dumb down Street Fighter, of all fucking games, to try to appeal to the casuals.

Most people only NOW catch on to why it was such a dumb fucking idea in 2017, but take for a moment, sit back, and just realize how utterly, incompetently stupid, that decision was if we were to apply it to real life sports/competitive events.

Imagine if you can magically take all the "execution skills" of basketball away; all the hand eye coordination needed for and1 style dribbling, the footwork needed to make an impossible fade-away, the alley-oop into windmill dunk, take away all that spectacle that makes the sport exciting, the traits that separate the NBA players from even college levels (fuck talking about us regular people), and then justify this change because... well, shouldn't basketball be about the X's and O's and strategy? The real life equivalents of footsies and mind games.

It's fucking absurd to think that you'd still come back out with an entertaining product.

SF5 is what would happen to NBA today if you banned all black players, then filled those players with 5'10 unathletic White guys, all so you can "go back to the basics" of "fundamental play".

The other glaring flaw with SF5 that people rarely mention, is also the fact that they dumbed it down by pretty much eliminating one half of what makes any competitive activity: the DEFENSIVE aspect of it.

People are always criticizing SF5 for being tourny-random as far as consistent results go. Sure, the game is consistent in that the same top 32 world's best players consistently place, but what it's bizarrely inconsistent is that said top players can literally win one tournament, then the very next, get eliminated in pools and not even sniff top 16. This doesn't just happen once to one top player. It happens consistently across the board. This is unique ONLY to SF5, as far as my history of competitive SF lets me remember.

Well no shit the results AMONG top players would be random as fuck. You just consciously removed all the defensive options and reduced it to a game of Block or Grab.

You literally removed 1/2 of what defines a great player, and then wonder why results arent consistent.

Remember the old adage: Offense wins games, Defense wins championship.

These two reasons are precisely why SF4 is the greatest competitive fighter in history, and it's really not in the least bit close.

The execution ceiling is easily the highest in any fighting game bar Virtual Fighter (i wouldnt know, I don't play that shit). This isn't even up for a debate.

For as much shit as people complained about Evil Ryu, literally 2 guys in the world had the required execution to take E. Ryu to his full potential, and those two players just happen to be Daigo and Sako, you know, the two gods. You literally had to be a god of fighting game to bring out E. Ryu's full S tier potential.

You couldn't name one other person who could get results with Dudley the same way Smug got results with Dudley. He is the only one in the world who can consistently hit those ridiculously combos over and over, in tournament setting. Smug's execution is the reason Dudley is even on the map.

As for defense, we already know SF4 had the most amount of defensive options ever. Scrubs complained endlessly because they're fucking scrubs. Great players used these defensive options, and had ways to deal with every one of them.

Complaining about back dash and crouch tech is like complaining about head movement and shoulder rolling in boxing. 100% scrub mentality.

[Deejay]

Fuck you my Dudley was godlike


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[Deejay]

And I gave Smug a run for his money in tournament so yeah


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[Krandor]

SF5 is what would happen to NBA today if you banned all black players, then filled those players with 5'10 unathletic White guys, all so you can "go back to the basics" of "fundamental play".

Having just finished a pickup game with my coworkers, this is ringing so true right now.

[Weltall]

Whether you kept up with Smug once in a tourney or not doesn't matter, what JCVD said is exactly true. No one is even remotely close to Smug's level of Dudley play, as no one else in the entire World could have showed up to Japan and did what he did playing Dudley.

This is the type of thing that is missing from SFV and makes it total garbage.

Edit: It just hit me, Japan hasn't even held a single SFV exhibition tourney like during SF4. What were those tourneys called? The big money, only the best are invited, ones...sadly, it has been so long that I cannot even remember.

[Krandor]

Topanga?

[Weltall]

Yes, those! They were the best...

[Callisto]

It makes it less fun to watch for people who know what's going on, because it's so easy to replicate.

Yeppp. Best example I can give is I was playing a friend who doesn't really play SF, and I played Ryu who I hadn't touched before other than trials. I got one touch and immediately did his longest optimal combo which I had never actually tried before but just watched GLB do a few times. It took zero practice to do 50%.

[Don Katsu]

Yes, those! They were the best...

They are having ranking events for it. I haven't cared enough to know who's in so far but they are still working on it.

[Spider-Dan]

Imagine if you can magically take all the "execution skills" of basketball away; all the hand eye coordination needed for and1 style dribbling, the footwork needed to make an impossible fade-away, the alley-oop into windmill dunk, take away all that spectacle that makes the sport exciting, the traits that separate the NBA players from even college levels (fuck talking about us regular people), and then justify this change because... well, shouldn't basketball be about the X's and O's and strategy? The real life equivalents of footsies and mind games.

SF2 didn't share SF4's dependence on frame-perfect links, and it was just fine.

SF4 is like if you took Marvel or GG and just made chain combos all have a 1 frame window. And then you took out airdashes and super jumps and everything else that makes the game exciting.

These two reasons are precisely why SF4 is the greatest competitive fighter in history, and it's really not in the least bit close.

the fuck outta here

It's not even in the top two of games with "Street Fighter" in the title.

The execution ceiling is easily the highest in any fighting game bar Virtual Fighter (i wouldnt know, I don't play that shit). This isn't even up for a debate.

I mean, if you're the kind of person that thinks a combo with 3 jabs and a 1-frame-link strong is elite gameplay, sure.

[Weltall]

Sorry Spider-Dan, but your opinion is fucking awful lol.

SF4 is EASILY the best competitive fighting game ever. Probably 90% of the posters on this thread would not be posting here, if not for that game. Personally, I'll take MVC2 over anything all day, but to even suggest SF4 isn't the top is ludicrous and outright dumb.

The FGC was held together by the duct tape that was MVC2 for years and years, before SF4 came along and brought it to a place that us OGs could only have dreamed of, back in the day.

[Moridam]

blazblue CT was actually the catalyst for reinvigorating my interest in fighting games, but SF4 is definitely the game that held my interest the most over the last 8 years.

[Spider-Dan]

Sorry Spider-Dan, but your opinion is fucking awful lol.

SF4 is EASILY the best competitive fighting game ever. Probably 90% of the posters on this thread would not be posting here, if not for that game.

100% of the posters in this thread - or any fighting game thread on any forum - would not be posting if not for SF2. What is your point?

Saying that SF4 is the greatest competitive fighting game ever is like saying that Apple is the most important company in the history of the telephone.

[Weltall]

Wrong on so many levels. No one gave a fuck about the FGC, tourneys, etc when SF3/MVC2/GG was running the scene. SF4 is responsible for the incredible growth we see today, not SF2.

I don't care if you don't like the game or likely suck at it, but SF4 is king when it comes to FGC history and expansion.