Street Fighter V: A Preliminary Thread

[JeanClaudVanDamme]

I can't help but continue to be amazed at the complete confidence with which you declare that SF5 is unambiguously worthless trash while SF4 is indisputably awesome.

I'm continuously amazed at how utter daft you are.

These criterias, to any non mouth breathing simp, would qualify one as being categorically BETTER than another:

1. It sold more by a big margin
2. Critically rated HIGHER and loved more by the community, as evident by the fact that it SOLD MORE AND KEPT SELLING FOR YEARS.
3. 7 continuous years of COMPETITIVE growth -- i.e., the people who actually play this shit on a deep level loved and continued to play it for years and years.

Again, you're going to look even more fucking stupid than you already do when EVO rolls around and SF5 dips MASSIVELY in entrants. Here's a precursor to how stupid you;re going to look: Final Round pre-reg was 1k last year, and has now dipped to 120ish.

It's puzzling how you get to be the one that sits there and somehow act like the SF4 fans are the weird ones for proclaiming it the better game despite all measurable criteria being in SF4's favor, while you gleefully suck SF5's dick as if your opinion is somehow more valid... all because what? Your shitty opinions and "muh 5k EVO entrants"?

Wait, is this where you avoid every single one of the valid points that get brought up, then defer to SF2's sales as if it somehow proves in anyway SF5 ISN'T a piece of shit?

Until the mid-2000s, the last revision of SF3 was called "Strike Three" by almost every high-level SF2 player I know. Many of these same players had a similar opinion of SF4; particularly, every part of gameplay associated with FADC->Ultra (which is basically the defining mechanic of the game).

See, therein lies the problem. You actually think the rest of the world gives two shit about the opinions of a bunch of 90s has-beens who were never as good at SF as they THOUGHT they were.

You guys were trash then, trash in Alpha, trash in CVS, trash in 3s, trash in SF4, and now you're STILL trash in SF5. I fail to understand how you bringing up a bunch of SF2 players literally hating on EVERYTHING somehow proves a single point?

It's hilariously how you avoided that point about how SF5 is currently DOMINATED by the same group of SF4 players with ZERO presence of 90s SF2 OG players.

What happened? Isn't this the single reason why you love SF5 so much? Because it's supposedly brings back old school SF2 gameplay?

And yet Graham Wolf, Valle, and every OG from both American and Japan, are still fucking trash and irrelevant in the competitive scene.

A fan of the previous version of SF saying that the new version, while competitively popular, is actually garbage and emphasizes skills that are not worth measuring is just about the universal constant of Street Fighter. That's why I've tried to avoid focusing on my own opinion of the quality of these games (cliff notes: any fighting game that doesn't have the number 2 in its title is almost certainly not worth playing) and just comparing them on another basis; sales, playerbase, tournament entrants, what have you..

Like I say, the "back in my day" nigga.

[Weltall]

Unless his friends were Pyro Lee, Justin, Ricki, or Hsien, there aren't really any other people in America who's opinion of Third Strike mattered anyway, lmfao.

[Krandor]

By that same train of logic none of our opinions in any of these games should matter, so why are you still arguing about it?

[Weltall]

Because the guy is basically Liroy with the ability to use semi-colons, and it is fun to laugh at people like that. I have to head out though; have a great weekend, everyone!

[Xno Kappa]

I actually enjoy and like playing SFV. More then SFIV :/

I like SF4 better than SFV cuz Bipson is boring in SFV and no Rose. Saw Moonz do a week one mix up with Bipson last week on NLBC and yipes/other guy and stream monsters lost their mind like it was new tech lol.

Rose. Such an amazing character who rustled so many jimmies when it won EVO, not unlike it's predecessor Gen. Went from lolRose sucks to OMG NERF BACKDASH! So many formerly "pro" players were scrubs for complaining about it.

[JeanClaudVanDamme]

By that same train of logic none of our opinions in any of these games should matter, so why are you still arguing about it?

Because using the "but the OGs hated it" option select only works if

a) The OGs actually measurably affect sales, therefore proving that Capcom has succeeded in "bringing back the old players" It didn't. SF5 sold like shit, which meant it neither brought in new players OR returning old players.

or

b) The OGs are a sizable presence in the competitive scene, which would prove Capcom succeeded in proving SF5 is a glorious return to the old ways of SF, and that we really HAVE returned to the "basics of SF", therefore giving validity to the criticisms of past SFs. The OGs are as they've ever been: completely irrelevant in the current state of competition. Valle, Choi, Watson, Cole, Wolfe Brothers, literally 100% of OGs either don't play it, or they do, but are trash.

So deferring to their opinions in this case proves exactly nothing besides an empty appeal to some sort of authority. Their opinion on this game literally changes nothing.

Whereas, if you were to cite NuckleDu and Infiltrations' opinions on the game (both of whom think the game is too easy/no footsies, you know, the two guys who are actually actively PLAYING AND WINNING at the highest level, you can walk away with valid input on how to improve the game.

Citing 90s OG's opinion is damn worthless.

[Tohmane]

All our opinions are worthless, mouth-frothing mental masturbation is all I see in this thread.

[Spider-Dan]

Holy fuck, at this point, you're simply that fucking idiot that exists in EVERY one of these discussion.

That one guy that swears whatever came out first will always be the best ever.

Your entire argument is that the previous game is better than the current one! Do you not recognize your own rank hypocrisy?

You can't even get your story straight! You care about sales because SF4 beats SF5, then say sales don't count because SF4 gets smashed by SF2. You care about tournament entrants because professional gaming is much bigger now than it was in the '90s, then insist that SF5's bigger tournament entries don't count because at some point in the future, they probably won't be bigger anymore.

I mean, look at this nonsense:

These criterias, to any non mouth breathing simp, would qualify one as being categorically BETTER than another:

1. It sold more by a big margin
2. Critically rated HIGHER and loved more by the community, as evident by the fact that it SOLD MORE AND KEPT SELLING FOR YEARS.
3. 7 continuous years of COMPETITIVE growth -- i.e., the people who actually play this shit on a deep level loved and continued to play it for years and years.

SF2 ABSOLUTELY DESTROYS SF4 on the first two criteria (and laughably so) yet you insist that doesn't matter. SF2 created the competitive scene that SF4 inherited. Yet you continue to insist that SF4 is somehow the greatest thing ever.

You guys were trash then, trash in Alpha, trash in CVS, trash in 3s, trash in SF4, and now you're STILL trash in SF5.

It's pretty funny how I don't see NuckleDu saying that SF5 is garbage. But wait, it's totally different when players who were good in SF4 but then end up losing in SF5 say it's bad, right?

BTW, you might want to look up some tournament results for Alpha, 3S, CVS, etc. before you continue showcasing your ignorance. I'd probably start with the results of Alex Valle (A2, A3, 3S), John Choi (A2, A3, CVS2), Graham Wolfe (A3), and Jason Nelson (CVS1)... all SF2 players.

It's hilariously how you avoided that point about how SF5 is currently DOMINATED by the same group of SF4 players with ZERO presence of 90s SF2 OG players.

What happened?

These players are in their 40s now and are the ones running tournaments. That is quite literally what happened.

Like I say, the "back in my day" nigga.

Says the guy stuck in 2009.

Unlike you, I know how this story turns out. No matter how much you want to insist that SF4 is The Greatest Game, it's dead and it's never coming back. And even if you're right and SF5's tournament scene shrivels into nothingness, the overwhelming majority of these players will simply disappear.

The fact that you would try to compare SF4 to ST or MVC2 - games which had over a decade of tournament viability without a single update - is a joke. The only reason why people didn't quit "SF4" en masse is because they came out with a major revision every other year in that "7-year period" you keep citing.

SF4 is dead. Forever. There will be no "SF4 HD Remix" 20 years from now because honestly, SF4 sales were pretty insignificant and nobody really cares about that game except a hardcore minority of dead-enders. SF2 was a worldwide gaming phenomenon; SF4 was a niche product. The only reason people played SF4 was because it was new, and it's no longer new.

tl;dr: a bunch of SF4 players saying "this new game sucks" is no different than what SF2 players have been saying for the last 25 years

[Deejay]

tl;dr: a bunch of SF4 players saying "this new game sucks" is no different than what SF2 players have been saying for the last 25 years

Seriously, this is all that needed to be said.

[Lokus]

My main annoyance with all the this "SFIV was a much better game, let's go back to it" mentality is that no one ever actually does. When it's on the lineup at tournaments, no one enters. Smug/ChrisG/Wolfkrone are basically shoe-ins to win. CEO had a recent poll on whether or not they should add it and it got destroyed by votes for other games (mainly Melee). Is it because it's not included in Evo's lineup that it's fanbase has given up? That sure didn't stop the Skullgirls community from expanding and as a community making Combo Breaker their "Evo". It's definitely not gonna be at CC because at the end of the day, CC is a marketing tool for Capcom's newer game. I know WNF brought it back last week(?) because some people were asking for it but I've no clue how many entrants it actually got.

[Cjskater]

My main annoyance with all the this "SFIV was a much better game, let's go back to it" mentality is that no one ever actually does. When it's on the lineup at tournaments, no one enters. Smug/ChrisG/Wolfkrone are basically shoe-ins to win. CEO had a recent poll on whether or not they should add it and it got destroyed by votes for other games (mainly Melee). Is it because it's not included in Evo's lineup that it's fanbase has given up? That sure didn't stop the Skullgirls community from expanding and as a community making Combo Breaker their "Evo". It's definitely not gonna be at CC because at the end of the day, CC is a marketing tool for Capcom's newer game. I know WNF brought it back last week(?) because some people were asking for it but I've no clue how many entrants it actually got.

Links if anyone wants to see recent USF4 numbers

WNF: 33
https://smash.gg/tournament/weds-nig...son-1-5/events

FFIX: 31
https://smash.gg/tournament/frosty-faustings-ix/events

[Lucavi]

tl;dr: a bunch of SF4 players saying "this new game sucks" is no different than what SF2 players have been saying for the last 25 years

The old always hates the new. Can't really argue this.

[Spider-Dan]

Links if anyone wants to see recent USF4 numbers

WNF: 33
https://smash.gg/tournament/weds-nig...son-1-5/events

FFIX: 31
https://smash.gg/tournament/frosty-faustings-ix/events

Just for reference, the number of entrants for the already dead game that nobody wants to play at the same events:

WNF: 72
FFIX: 256

[Cjskater]

New banner, nobody surprised about who it is but ice confirmation I guess.

https://www.facebook.com/streetfighter/?fref=ts
https://twitter.com/StreetFighter

[Lokus]

I'm curious as to how the release is going to be like this year. Is it going to attempt to be monthly so we end up with all 6 characters by June/July? After last year, they sure as hell aren't giving us a timeline.

[Intrinsic]

I'm still trying to find my character in SFV. Hoping this new season gives me someone I enjoy playing. I've been bouncing between Ibuki and Karin so far, but I don't really love either of them. Then again I never really found a character I loved in SFIV either, mainly just played Poison for the luls. I'd be fine doing that in SFV too.

[fantasticdan]

Just for reference, the number of entrants for the already dead game that nobody wants to play at the same events:

WNF: 72
FFIX: 256

If we're going to judge games by the number of people playing them, the entire fighting genre is dogshit.

[Spider-Dan]

Precisely correct.

The sales of any "best-selling" fighting game in the last 20 years are a footnote among best-seller lists. It's a niche genre now, which makes these claims about SF4's amazing sales dominance and legendary tournament status rather silly. The numbers are still incredibly small compared to games that are actually popular.

Outside of SF2 and MK1/2, no fighting game has ever had "high sales" relative to other top sellers. And although Street Fighter has an older tournament scene than basically every other existing game, many other games took better advantage of the explosion in professional gaming popularity. Mainstream fighting games didn't transition from head-to-head in-person play to online play until SF4, and even that game's online implementation (and every other fighting game's implementation, too) is widely considered by "pros" to be far too flawed to be worth playing seriously.

[Cjskater]

I'm curious as to how the release is going to be like this year. Is it going to attempt to be monthly so we end up with all 6 characters by June/July? After last year, they sure as hell aren't giving us a timeline.

I think they said they'll talk to the community about once every other month. That also coincides with the current release of Helen it seems, so probably about that.

Helen news:
https://twitter.com/StreetFighter/st...93512114245632

Tomorrow we'll reveal the next #SFV Character and a track from @LupeFiasco's new album, #DROGASLight; available 2/10 http://smarturl.it/DROGASlight

[6souls]

Kolin announced