Street Fighter V: A Preliminary Thread

[Deejay]

How is SF3 not a deep game lol. Omg option selects and 1 frame links is so deep. No game makes you dig deeper into the mind of your opponent than 3 did. There's a reason why everyone KNOWS a third strike player when they see one.

4 was cool and all but god damn you guys are on some other shit right now lol

[Krandor]

Didn't you know bro, no 1 frame links means the game is complete garbage.

[Xno Kappa]

Low forward confirm into super. I'm so godliek!

Spoiler: show

Joking before someone froths at the mouth with rage.

[Charismatic]

How is SF3 not a deep game lol. Omg option selects and 1 frame links is so deep. No game makes you dig deeper into the mind of your opponent than 3 did. There's a reason why everyone KNOWS a third strike player when they see one.

4 was cool and all but god damn you guys are on some other shit right now lol

Any time I see people talkin like that I just watch this again and remind myself that they have no idea what they are talking about.

[Xno Kappa]

Aegis Reflector really needs to come back for SFV. Fucking love that super.

[Callisto]

as long as I can hold forward and press buttons in someone's face the game is good

[JeanClaudVanDamme]

How is SF3 not a deep game lol. Omg option selects and 1 frame links is so deep. No game makes you dig deeper into the mind of your opponent than 3 did. There's a reason why everyone KNOWS a third strike player when they see one.

4 was cool and all but god damn you guys are on some other shit right now lol

SF3 is a terrible because it offered the least varied gameplay in any SF ever.

The game has 19 characters, all with different moves and specials and supers, that all end up approaching the game in exactly the same manner. A complete lack of playstyles. Grapplers, zoners, pokers, all ended playing in exactly the same manner. The entire cast's offensive game was monotonous.

The very nature of parrying made the game dishonest when it comes to SF fundamentals. The game requires zero knowledge of footsies because parrying meant anybody could get in at anytime, which further pushed the game in the direction that it took (offensive monotone across the board). There's zero work required for spacing and positioning. The fight took place at exactly one distance: all up in your face, phonebooth style.

Then there is the fact that the game is entirely meter dependent. Meters/specials were way too overpowered in the game, which further detracted from the need to play honest a fundamental, footsie-based, where you had to use all your normals to their max potential. Shit like Aegis, Oro's revolving garbage, Genei Jin, Abare Tosonami, Shippu, Chun SA2, were all retardedly overpowered to the point that their entire game revolved around getting bars before they even start attacking.

This is why the game isn't deep. Not because it doesn't have 1 frame links or option select.

It isn't deep because the game does not require fundamental fighting game skills or Street Fighter IQ to be successful/good at it. Even Ohnuki, one of the GOAT 3rd Strike player, describes the game as rhythmic based rather than intuition.

All this, on top of the fact that game game's execution level is mid tier difficulty at best, with mediocre character balance, completely forgettable music, and a total chore to watch as a spectator makes the game terrible.

And yes, you can easily spot a 3rd Strike player by the fact that they have zero fucking traditional SF skills lmao. There is a reason 3rd Strike has so few successful player carryovers to other games. 3rd Strike gods like Kuroda, Match, K.O., RX, Spell Master J, Kokujin, MOV, Rikimaru, Match, Issei, Nitto, etc., etc., are either one trick pony (3s, obviously) or are completely mediocre or terrible at every other fighting game they play. Being good at 3s requires a completely different (lesser) skillset/IQ than something like ST or SF4, where time tested fundamentals will always carry you to the top.

3s is a good fighting game, but a shallow , low skilled Street Fighter.

or lord, just saw the video posted by charismatic. LOL the video demonstrates exactly my point. Two dudes seemingly hitting buttons and jumping at will, with no thought or planning into what they are doing. No care or worry about footsies or spacing. Dudes are literally just hitting buttons til they can get meter for Aegis.

Yes, I'm well aware this is how 3s is played, even more so when it's a Urien mirror. But this isn't Street Fighter, and the skills needed for this game, do not translate to any other Fighting game, nevermind Street Fighter. The skill ceiling and fight IQ for 3s are just simply two tiers lower than that of SF4.

[Jefe]

We need a 'like' button up in this bitch.

[Deejay]

What magical skills are needed in 4? How many magical oh my god reads has this game produced in the 6 years it's been out?

You say Yun was silly in 3S when his SF4 iteration plays exactly the same only he burns meter on red focus instead of genei Jin.

ken and chun li also required a good amount of footsies to play at a high level. Regardless if you think parry was shallow or not, it is still an inherent risk. And you're telling me shoryu FADC is supposed to add some layer of depth that parrys didn't?

For the longest time, shoryu characters dominated 4 because FADC was so strong, then the game progressed to option selects and set play. I don't give a shit how offensive 3S was, at least when someone earned a knock down they still had to go get their damage. Unblockables weren't a thing, vortex wasn't nearly as strong as it was in 4, and playing good defense actually meant more than spending two meters to make a move safe. The fuck

Look at the characters like viper, Abel, or Seth, or Rufus who only need to knock you down once and then play the 50/50 game. Look at a character like evil Ryu who only needs to touch you once to seal a round. Look at akuma who could dominate match ups with vortex and dumb shit loops. That is what dominated SF4 for the better part of the games life span.

Even look at 4 now. You mean to tell me pocket Elena bullshit is the pinnacle of street fighter? I mean really.. What did we see in this years top 8 that was the deepest of any fighting game ever created

[Damane]

i am not a fighting game pro, but to me SF3 felt way more harder to play then SF4. I cant do combos for shit in 3 as compared to 4 which gives me a much easier time ¬.¬. I even played both games against a friend that plays Fighting games for years. in SF4 i could hold up myself against him in SF3 i was stomped to shit o.o (albeit i didnt play SF3 alot previously). I am not saying SF4 or SF3 is shit, neither are. But SF3 felt way more harder to play then SF4

also i hope for poison and karin in SFV ._. plox Capcom, i need them sassy girls

[Krandor]

completely forgettable music

You shut your fucking dirty whore mouth

[Charismatic]

SF3 is a terrible because it offered the least varied gameplay in any SF ever.

The game has 19 characters, all with different moves and specials and supers, that all end up approaching the game in exactly the same manner. A complete lack of playstyles. Grapplers, zoners, pokers, all ended playing in exactly the same manner. The entire cast's offensive game was monotonous.

The very nature of parrying made the game dishonest when it comes to SF fundamentals. The game requires zero knowledge of footsies because parrying meant anybody could get in at anytime, which further pushed the game in the direction that it took (offensive monotone across the board). There's zero work required for spacing and positioning. The fight took place at exactly one distance: all up in your face, phonebooth style.

Then there is the fact that the game is entirely meter dependent. Meters/specials were way too overpowered in the game, which further detracted from the need to play honest a fundamental, footsie-based, where you had to use all your normals to their max potential. Shit like Aegis, Oro's revolving garbage, Genei Jin, Abare Tosonami, Shippu, Chun SA2, were all retardedly overpowered to the point that their entire game revolved around getting bars before they even start attacking.

This is why the game isn't deep. Not because it doesn't have 1 frame links or option select.

It isn't deep because the game does not require fundamental fighting game skills or Street Fighter IQ to be successful/good at it. Even Ohnuki, one of the GOAT 3rd Strike player, describes the game as rhythmic based rather than intuition.

All this, on top of the fact that game game's execution level is mid tier difficulty at best, with mediocre character balance, completely forgettable music, and a total chore to watch as a spectator makes the game terrible.

And yes, you can easily spot a 3rd Strike player by the fact that they have zero fucking traditional SF skills lmao. There is a reason 3rd Strike has so few successful player carryovers to other games. 3rd Strike gods like Kuroda, Match, K.O., RX, Spell Master J, Kokujin, MOV, Rikimaru, Match, Issei, Nitto, etc., etc., are either one trick pony (3s, obviously) or are completely mediocre or terrible at every other fighting game they play. Being good at 3s requires a completely different (lesser) skillset/IQ than something like ST or SF4, where time tested fundamentals will always carry you to the top.

3s is a good fighting game, but a shallow , low skilled Street Fighter.

or lord, just saw the video posted by charismatic. LOL the video demonstrates exactly my point. Two dudes seemingly hitting buttons and jumping at will, with no thought or planning into what they are doing. No care or worry about footsies or spacing. Dudes are literally just hitting buttons til they can get meter for Aegis.

Yes, I'm well aware this is how 3s is played, even more so when it's a Urien mirror. But this isn't Street Fighter, and the skills needed for this game, do not translate to any other Fighting game, nevermind Street Fighter. The skill ceiling and fight IQ for 3s are just simply two tiers lower than that of SF4.

Your entire post falls apart (it was already on shaky ground before that, mind you) when you get to the part where you try to say that 3S players are one trick ponies because they aren't gods at every game that exists. I hope you're well aware that there's actually very few players who are pretty consistent across many games. If you want to go that route we might as well call Tokido the best who ever did it. I've also lost count of the number of games Diago is mediocre at even though he was pretty much a GG god and Vsav beast and is damn solid in SF4. Enough for me to agree with Nuki riding his nuts all day. That said, MOV's Chun in SF4 is nothin' short of a beauty to see, so even then I really don't know what you're talking about. Do you?

I'm not even gonna go too deep on your analysis of the game though because there's such a fundamental misunderstanding of the game here that I don't think it'd be worth my time. You saying the Urien mirror had no worry about footies or spacing made me laugh so hard. Its like reading a person talk about fireball zoning being spam. You literally have no clue.
Friendly reminder that footsies being different in 3S does not mean they do not exist.
I'm also confident your knowledge of the game is lacking because you didn't even launch into a 3 paragraph tirade on how there's no fireball zoning in 3S (which is the one thing I could agree with, not that I necessarily think this is an absolutely bad thing)

[Krandor]

I wouldn't straight up call Daigo a GG God. He was more akin to what we saw Kazu doing this year, beating the shit out of America free but being generally middle of the pack in Japan.

Though obviously he is responsible for the Dustloop, so there is that.

Tokido is the best fighting game player period though. The dude has played so many games at high level it's ridiculous. Tekken, Soul Calibur, MvC3, KoF, Street Fighter. You name it the dude was a threat.

[Weltall]

1. I can't agree with the hating on 3s, especially the music part.

2. I will agree with him that SF4 is the best fighter we have ever had. I'm not even sure how this can be argued against. It's the only reason EVO took off the way it did (Marvel 2 held it alive by a single breathe for years), kept Madcatz in business, and outside of a couple of characters is extremely well balanced for how many characters are available. The game is also designed in a way that a heavy execution player (Latif) can win and a very fundamental player (Damdai/Valle) can also win. The game marries play styles like no game before or after it.

3. I think I agree with Tokido being the best overall player ever, but Sako would easily be the best if he felt like playing the other games. He is basically the best at every game he picks up and takes seriously.

[Callisto]

^ 4 is nice because the cast is large enough to reward execution without forcing it.

[Deejay]

SF4 being the "greatest" game in its genre goes without saying because of what it did to breathe life into the scene, but objectively looking at it, it has PLENTY of faults. Yes it is balanced, yes it has its depth, but fundamentally it isn't any deeper than any other iteration of street fighter. It just does the best job of marrying different play styles under one system.

However, some could say that it's still a little brain dead. Plenty of OGs have said that. There is a reason why Combofiend keeps saying that he wants people to commit more to their reads in V, because that is a huge thing that IV lacked. I'm not saying IV isn't a great title, I just think we need to calm down with calling it the holy grail.

[Callisto]

I think that's partially true but people also act like FADCs are totally free. Maybe if they cost 3 bars on block the game would be the perfect balance, but still to an extent you have to choose between immediate safety or future damage. Ultra fixed the biggest issue, which was them being positive on block.

[Deejay]

I can count on one hand the moments I've said, "Holy fuck, this is street fighter" while watching high level SFIV play. One was when I saw Valle vs Daigo... And two when I saw Knuckledu fundamentally raping Justin Wong's Rose, and three was Daigos Evil Ryu vs Momochis ken. The rest of IV's hype moments came from silly shit like Tokido pose and niggas taking their shirts off on stage like some nerdy version of Coyote Ugly.

[Weltall]

SF4 being the "greatest" game in its genre goes without saying because of what it did to breathe life into the scene, but objectively looking at it, it has PLENTY of faults. Yes it is balanced, yes it has its depth, but fundamentally it isn't any deeper than any other iteration of street fighter. It just does the best job of marrying different play styles under one system.

However, some could say that it's still a little brain dead. Plenty of OGs have said that. There is a reason why Combofiend keeps saying that he wants people to commit more to their reads in V, because that is a huge thing that IV lacked. I'm not saying IV isn't a great title, I just think we need to calm down with calling it the holy grail.

If a game didn't have faults, everyone would be playing that single game. That will never, ever happen since it's opinion based. V will have flaws. VI will have flaws. SF4 just had the least of any fighter ever, so far. The flaws it had were minimal and the OGs you see complaining are only complaining because they lose to new blood who can execute a hell of a lot better than them. There are tons of "OGs" who also disagree with them.

Who are you even referring to when you say "OGs"? The good OGs, other than Valle/Choi have mostly quit. I've been playing just as long or longer than most of the people you are referring to and know plenty of "old players" who all agree SF4 is better than anything else we've had.

You only started hearing them talk when they stopped even sniffing Top 8s.

[Callisto]

I can count on one hand the moments I've said, "Holy fuck, this is street fighter" while watching high level SFIV play. One was when I saw Valle vs Daigo... And two when I saw Knuckledu fundamentally raping Justin Wong's Rose, and three was Daigos Evil Ryu vs Momochis ken. The rest of IV's hype moments came from silly shit like Tokido pose and niggas taking their shirts off on stage like some nerdy version of Coyote Ugly.

you forgot the time I fierce punched the fuck out of ya