Street Fighter V: A Preliminary Thread

[Chun Liroy]

All I know is that I'm playing Vega and R. Mika so far. R. Mika is definitely my jam. Those normals look sick.

Also as far as my input, I'm a fan of beating the player by any means necessary. When it comes to Marvel, I pick my team order based on match up, but maybe that's an entirely different aspect entirely.

Daigo is my absolute favorite player, so I suppose that lends me towards character specialist and making player based adjustments, but I do love what infiltration does to absolutely MASTER SF4 (imo). I think there are levels. Gamerbee picking elena because she's broken is fucking lame as hell but I respect it. Infiltration being able to play the entire cast at a tournament winning level puts him as the best SF4 player in my eyes and I think he's awesome when he does it. Art picking rose in sim's 9-1 match ups is a-okay in my book. Idk maybe I just really hate gamerbee (I do, he's a scrub in my eyes)

[The Blackrose]

I just hate Elena.

[Chun Liroy]

Same. I love Sako but I don't even watch him play because Elena is boring as fuck. Also, Infiltration gets bonus points for having the mental fortitude to put up with Gamerbee's elena bullshit in that like 40 minute set at Evo.

[Lucavi]

I don't blame players for using "boring" Elena. I blame the devs for allowing such a "boring" character to be better than so many other non-boring characters. But then again, this is the game that's had characters relegated to trash tier from day one, like Dee Jay, so whatever..

I can't put too much of a focus onto who's hot and who's not as characters. Elena was "trash" until people used her more. Now she's godlike. So it goes sometimes. Direct your anger at Capcom for now making a level playing field across characters if you're uspet about everyone turning to one character to win large sums of money. The players don't get to buff or nerf characters. That's capcom's job.

Also, some of you who love both Mahvel and SF4 are fucking hypocrites. You lament having one "boring" character sitting at the top as the de-facto pick in SF4 right now, while saying nothing about seeing morrispam and Vergil may Die teams with Doom missiling for years upon years. I don't care about the specific justifications, so save your fingers the stress of keyboard typing. Personally, if I want balance in one of the capcom fighters, I want it in both, because I'm no more salty about seeing Elena used all the time than I am about seeing Vergil and Doom in every comp that's out to win money.

[Weltall]

Is it about proving some machismo bullshit or is it about winning the titles, the money, and securing your legacy through victory. The FGC has too much false "pride" and "No True Scottsman" nonsense. I love to see a dude who plays one chara run it up in tourneys as well, but fuck, at the end of the day its about winning.

Even with it being about winning, a single character for even top players was the case for 90% of SF4's lifespan. It wasn't until the Elena era that we started to see counter-picking at this kind of rate. Even if it's not Elena being picked, that is what started the trend.

[Lucavi]

Even with it being about winning, a single character for even top players was the case for 90% of SF4's lifespan. It wasn't until the Elena era that we started to see counter-picking at this kind of rate. Even if it's not Elena being picked, that is what started the trend.

And so what? You either bash the players for adapting and attempting to win money and tournaments, or you bash the source of Elena's issues. I'll never bash a player for attempting to win unless they cheat. If they use a broken character, why is it their fault when they can do nothing about the character? Oh, just not use them, I guess. Institute some sort of "unwritten rules" nonsense like Baseball where people try hard, but not "too" hard as its seen to be "disrespectful".

Fuck no, you blame Capcom. They have the ability to change it, the means to change it, the knowledge on how to change it and can and could have instituted a change at any time. Why bash the innocent?

What is it, the pushback against Netherrealm and constantly making changes to the game? Nobody wants a Mortal Kombat or Injustice deal where the game never gets to settle in and gel? Is that it? Fuck y'all then: you want it both ways and just sound like children. "Oh, don't make any changes to the game because meta and legacy, but don't play the OP character that could easily be adjusted by changing the game! Lets just insult the players in this game for over-using a strong character (that we'll call boring to further suit our narrative) in tournaments in this game, but hand out free passes like breadsticks at an Olive Garden to this Mahvel game over here because reasons."

Fuck that.

[Weltall]

I didn't say whether I hated it, loved it, disagreed with it, blamed anyone, etc. It doesn't really bother me, at all, beyond Elena because she is boring to watch.

I simply stated when it started to regularly occur.

[Chun Liroy]

This nigga getting mad up in arms about nothing lol.

Also, I absolutely love lameness. I play Vega for shitsake and Dorm in umvc3. I love morrigan play it's highly intricate and the little things can tell a lot about a player.

Zero is boring as fuck. Watching Vergil comebacks are boring but sometimes they're exciting and even if they're not its over in like 5 seconds anyways lol.
Elena is also boring as fuck and I don't think it has to do with her status as high tier. Akuma was top tier all throughout SF4 and he wasn't necessarily boring to watch unless it was infiltration playing in 2012 and even STILL he was exciting because of his FADC techniques at the time were groundbreaking.

[Jefe]

Counter picking was a rarity. I saw it a few times when peeps couldn't beat SnakeEyez and picked Sagat. Maybe it's more noticeable because Elena is fucking boring to watch.

[Cjskater]

I'm just glad it wasn't Rolento that everyone is counterpicking with. I get physically ill seeing that character.

[JeanClaudVanDamme]

Is it about proving some machismo bullshit or is it about winning the titles, the money, and securing your legacy through victory. The FGC has too much false "pride" and "No True Scottsman" nonsense. I love to see a dude who plays one chara run it up in tourneys as well, but fuck, at the end of the day its about winning.

lol this post is so full of disingenuous, misinformed bullshit.

you can spin it however you want, counter picking is a shameless tactic that completely takes the spirit of competition away. it's a fucking sham, and the FGC will grow more legitimate only when tournament organizers come to the realization that fighting games are imperfect because they are made by imperfect humans.

to counter pick is to exploit a fundamental flaw in the design.

every competitive event in the entire world has rules and regulations to enforce fair play, spirit of competition and continues to add/alter rules for the ever evolving activity.

This is why you don't punch the guy in the balls or the back of the head in a boxing match. Using your fucktarded logic, why shouldn't the boxer be allowed to punch each other in the nuts if the objective of the sport is to punch the nigga? Well, why shouldn't it be allowed if both guys are allowed to punch each others in the nut? It's a completely arbitrary rule.

But it's enforced because it's deem unsportsmanlike and dirty, and rightfully so. Beyond that, nobody wants to watch a sports in which the best way to win is to punch the dude in the nut.

In UFC, why is it a neck crank is completely legal, yet you can't manipulate small joints? Again, completely arbitrary. It's enforced because small joint manipulation is deemed dirty and unsportsmanlike, and requires no fucking skills. Why can't you gauge the dude's eye out of the objective of the sports is to win a fight? AGAIN, because it's fucking dirty.

Why is there offside calls in majority of team sports? If the objective is simply to score on the other team, why shouldn't a team be allowed to have its entire team camp on the opposite side of the field before the ball/puck is anywhere NEAR the goal? Again, it's enforced for fair play and the integrity of the sport. If it wasn't enforced, you'd be watching soccer with its entire roster camped inside the square.

Why is there a 3 second defensive violation call in basketball? After all, the objective is to score or stop your opponent from scoring. Why can't a 7 foot giant just park his ass right under the net and stops all incoming play? It's arbitrary, but it's enforced in the spirit of competition, and to stop a blatant exploit of the game. Otherwise basketball would be a bore to watch, with teams consisting of multiple 7 footers tanking up the entire paint, and nobody would watch that shit. Which further leads to goaltending. Why should the player be allowed to slap the ball while it's descending? Again, it's enforced for the integrity of the game. Blocking a ball on its way down is easy as fuk and requires no skill.

So every single competitive event in the history of mankind has had history of enforcing rules all or the sake of fair play, competition, and sports integrity. Why should SF/fighting games be different?

Hard counter picking is dirty, no matter how you spin it. It is the nut punching, goaltending, eye guaging tactic of fighting games. It blows my mind how some of you jackass can't come to realize a tournament that's decided by winning a 7-3 or 8-2 match up can be any sort of legitimate result for you.

Every competitive event in its infancy was not perfect, but through countless arbitrary rules enforced throughout the years, the sports grow to be legitimate events that you see it today. SF isn't any different, and TOs, and the vast majority of you clueless scrubs, need to realize this and start enforcing no counter picking. Counter picking is a dirty, shameless tactic for skilless fags that would rather play "let's see who can exploit bad gaming design better" instead of seeing "Who is the better Street Fighter player".

Fuck Infiltration, pedo looking mother fucker and his norwood 3 bald head scrub who plays 44 different characters, but wins far less often than the guy who plays 1 character.

[Deejay]

first and hopefully last time i'll agree with this weirdo

[Callisto]

Maximizing your competitive advantage legally within the rules of the competition is not in the spirit of competition? You ever competed in something that wasn't little league baseball?

[Weltall]

I didn't read all that, but I assume his point is: change the rules to be character locked. This already happens (2 char lock) for invitational type tournaments (Topanga).

[Sho]

Doubtful counter picking will ever end because the emphasis is taken away from the character and placed on the players themselves. Meaning that as far as the TO is concerned, it's a match between two players, not the characters. A BS way of putting it would be that the characters are just an extension of the player.

I agree with JCVD, but we've also known how this is for well over 10 yrs now in most instances.

[Chun Liroy]

Youre agreeing agreeing with the dude saying counter picking should be illegal? Lmao. Those other things are getting an unfair competitive edge. One team isn't allowed to line up offsides, so neither is the other. YOURE ALLOWED to pick the character, then there's no competitive advantage to selecting him as a counter pick. It's kept in balance due to being a game up and allowing yourself to counterpick. If you know your opponent then do a blind pick if you think you'll be counterpicked initially. It still takes skill to use that new character.

[Weltall]

It rarely* ever works or worked anyway, until Elena happened. Evil Ryu is the other we see because he is simply so strong. Almost every strong/Pro player was known for his single character until about a year ago. Yes, they may change mains between versions, but they stuck to a single main until last season.

Gamerbee could fall off a cliff and I would not care. He is the most boring mother fucker to watch with Elena.

[JeanClaudVanDamme]

Maximizing your competitive advantage legally within the rules of the competition is not in the spirit of competition? You ever competed in something that wasn't little league baseball?

Amateur boxing, weightlifting (Oly lifting), Highschool football, summer league baseball, Counterstrike right up to 1.6, and I've been playing Street Fighter since Hyper Fighting, been following competitive SF since Alpha 3 days. Yes, I'm probably far more qualified than 99% of you scrubs when speaking of competition.

Which is why I can articulate on this subject better than 100% of you on this board.

Counter picking is perfectly legal right now, but it's about damn time we, the community, recognize that bullshit for what it truly is: an exploit of bad game design, and an illegitimate way of determining skills, and overall terrible viewing experience for spectators.

Please tell me more about how you enjoy watching Gouken vs Hugo, Guile vs Dictator, Elena vs SF4. Please, please put your money where your mouth is.

I bet you if the scene came down to the entire top 32 coming down to counter picking, none of you would ever sit through a Sunday main event night. Stop lying to yourself. It'd be the death of the beauty of COMPETITIVE (key word) Street Fighter.

[Callisto]

So then the obvious correct course of action is to just pick the characters with the least amount of bad matchups so that you don't have to change to cover bad ones right? How bout them three-character 3S top 8s fuck yeah

Or just make a game where every character is a reskinned version of the exact same thing so matchups don't exist, that's as pure as it gets!

[Chun Liroy]

If it was such an illegitimate way of determining skill, then the person who counterpicked (the score would be 1-1) could then be counterpicked and be guaranteed to lose.

Guess what? That doesn't happen because A) they go from a 4-6 mu to a 6-4 mu, it's not that big a difference and overall skill prevails unless there is unfamiliarity or B) IT ACTUALLY STILL TAKES SKILL TO PLAY A CHARACTER. You don't automatically win because you counterpicked akuma with yun. See: every time ryan hart played that character. Character lock is stupid outside of extremely long set based tournaments that allow for player adaptation during the set.