Street Fighter V: A Preliminary Thread

[Chun Liroy]

So then the obvious correct course of action is to just pick the characters with the least amount of bad matchups so that you don't have to change to cover bad ones right? How bout them three-character 3S top 8s fuck yeah

Or just make a game where every character is a reskinned version of the exact same thing so matchups don't exist, that's as pure as it gets!

So what you're saying is that we should play alpha version of divekick, right? PURE FIGHTING GAME FUNDAMENTALS

[Sho]

Youre agreeing agreeing with the dude saying counter picking should be illegal? Lmao. Those other things are getting an unfair competitive edge. One team isn't allowed to line up offsides, so neither is the other. YOURE ALLOWED to pick the character, then there's no competitive advantage to selecting him as a counter pick. It's kept in balance due to being a game up and allowing yourself to counterpick. If you know your opponent then do a blind pick if you think you'll be counterpicked initially. It still takes skill to use that new character.

I agree but to an extent -- there could be checks placed, such as in Topanga League. To be fair we are talking about players who are in most instances in another realm of play from the other 99% of players (at the highest levels of gameplay). So few people can counterpick successfully.

[Chun Liroy]

If there should be any type of character lock it should be 2 characters AT LEAST. Also, good fucking luck enforcing character lock at a tournament like evo where there's 3000 entrants.

[Xno Kappa]

How the fuck would you even enforce a ban on counter picking? Make up an arbitrary list of characters for each character you can't turn to after a lost? How the fuck would that even be fair to begin with, you'd be pigeon holing everyone into a handful of characters.

[Weltall]

It will never work in the FGC outside of invitationals because tournaments are ran so damn ghetto. I mean, they can't even get online brackets and updates to work. They can't even provide updated information to announcers in any sort of timely manner. They have needed an information ticker (I think SCR had it last year?) for ages now.

[Callisto]

You must sign a sworn affidavit as to who your one true main is and only play them for life. If they aren't in SFV you can't even buy it because anyone you choose will just be a counterpick.

[Weltall]

How the fuck would you even enforce a ban on counter picking? Make up an arbitrary list of characters for each character you can't turn to after a lost? How the fuck would that even be fair to begin with, you'd be pigeon holing everyone into a handful of characters.

No, you would register 1-2 characters when you register for the tournament. The person running the pool would have to make sure it was enforced.

[Callisto]

The person who is almost always unpaid and dealing with making sure 16 idiots aren't walking off between matches lol

[Moridam]

eh, if MTG tournaments can enforce everyone sticking to the same initial 60+15, it wouldn't be awful to keep people from sticking to their 2 characters. if someone goes outside their locks, give them a penalty. pool runners get a list of each registered player and their characters, if anyone suspects foul play on their opponent's part call a runner and have a character check.

[Weltall]

eh, if MTG tournaments can enforce everyone sticking to the same initial 60+15, it wouldn't be awful to keep people from sticking to their 2 characters. if someone goes outside their locks, give them a penalty. pool runners get a list of each registered player and their characters, if anyone suspects foul play on their opponent's part call a runner and have a character check.

This was going to be the comparison I made, but MTG tournaments are ran by professionals and 1,589,098x better than any major in the FGC. People are actually paid to run MTG events and have to go through certifications and testing to do so.

[Callisto]

also the logistical challenges in trying to keep bracket info up to date on the fly are ridiculous at best and prohibitively expensive for TOs at worst. Until the money involved makes $50k pot bonuses seem like nothing that's not gonna be a thing at any tournament with more than 128 entrants.

[JeanClaudVanDamme]

If it was such an illegitimate way of determining skill, then the person who counterpicked (the score would be 1-1) could then be counterpicked and be guaranteed to lose.

Guess what? That doesn't happen because A) they go from a 4-6 mu to a 6-4 mu, it's not that big a difference and overall skill prevails unless there is unfamiliarity or B) IT ACTUALLY STILL TAKES SKILL TO PLAY A CHARACTER. You don't automatically win because you counterpicked akuma with yun. See: every time ryan hart played that character. Character lock is stupid outside of extremely long set based tournaments that allow for player adaptation during the set.

It's like you've never competed in anything in your entire life. The entire concept of sportsmanship, pride and integrity is completely lost on you. It's really bizarre to see someone so vehemently defend shameful tactics.

Counter picking is you telling the entire world you suck too much ass to play the man beside you in a honest match of Street Fighter, so you have to resort to picking a character with an inherent advantage to have any shot at beating him. An advantage deriving entirely from bad game design.

You the type of nikka to lose to a Hugo, then counter pick with Gouken, wins, and then jerk yourself off in front of the mirror about how great you are.

If you can accept that games are imperfect because they're made by imperfect human beings, then I cannot understand how you can't come to the conclusion that said imperfect creation are susceptible to exploitation.

Just because an exploit is available to both parties, does not stop it from being a fucking exploit. Get that through your head.

Boxing could very well let both fighters punch each other in the dick for 12 straight rounds, but any normal, logical, reasonable person would find that tasteless and unsportsmanlike.

Just because it's (currently) allowed doesn't mean it's right.

[Weltall]

also the logistical challenges in trying to keep bracket info up to date on the fly are ridiculous at best and prohibitively expensive for TOs at worst. Until the money involved makes $50k pot bonuses seem like nothing that's not gonna be a thing at any tournament with more than 128 entrants.

Give me a few iPads and an internet connection and I could solve that in a flash. Track only the top 1-2 games if you can't afford enough for the anime/KOF/Tekken plebes.

The fact that these tourneys are still being ran mostly on paper and manual input is flat out embarrassing.

[Callisto]

Gouken beating Hugo isn't bad game design, it's called fucking rock paper scissors. Any game with more than one character archetype will have bad matchups because that's the entire goddamn point of having more than two characters. If you lose the second game after the other guy picked Gouken then maybe demonstrate any knowledge at all of the fucking overall game and pick any of the fifteen characters that body Gouken. Or cry about it, pick Hugo again, get eliminated and go the fuck home.

[JeanClaudVanDamme]

eh, if MTG tournaments can enforce everyone sticking to the same initial 60+15, it wouldn't be awful to keep people from sticking to their 2 characters. if someone goes outside their locks, give them a penalty. pool runners get a list of each registered player and their characters, if anyone suspects foul play on their opponent's part call a runner and have a character check.

Like I said previously, anybody who knows anything about competition already realizes this.

There are arbitrary rules enforced in pretty much every single known competitive events out there, all in the name of sportsmanship, fair play, and the integrity of the sports/competition.

But for some reason, FGC scrubs can't comprehend this. It's all, "foh, fuck pride, fuck competition, win at all cost, i'm all about dat GUAP, dat tournament winnings, dat CapCup FIGHT MONAAAAAY".

My dude, if you're into competitive fighting games because of money, I question your life priorities.

It's ironic that the best players throughout competitive fighting game histories are the players that don't give a shit about money.

Daigo, Sako, Tokido, Justin Wong, and the likes were all the best in the worlds a decade before there was any money involved in the poverty ass FGC scene lol.

[Callisto]

It's like complaining that you lost in Madden because you only learned how to do passing plays and the other guy picked a pass defense and you're too stupid to run the ball.

[Weltall]

Ban Elena. Problem solved!!! Bitch ruined EVO and every other tourney leading up to it.

[Callisto]

So the best examples of competitive purity include Tokido, who is on record as saying that he finds the single most broken strategy he can in every game and then just rides it until it doesn't work anymore, and Daigo, who dropped Ryu to play top tier in BOTH AE and Ultra, gotcha lol

[JeanClaudVanDamme]

Gouken beating Hugo isn't bad game design, it's called fucking rock paper scissors. Any game with more than one character archetype will have bad matchups because that's the entire goddamn point of having more than two characters. If you lose the second game after the other guy picked Gouken then maybe demonstrate any knowledge at all of the fucking overall game and pick any of the fifteen characters that body Gouken. Or cry about it, pick Hugo again, get eliminated and go the fuck home.

You're still rambling nonsense.

You can argue semantics whether it's bad gameplay design or archetype weaknesses, spin it however you like, call it by whichever name you want. At the end of the day, any reasonable person with any respect for sportsmanship would recognize that tactic for what it is, and that is dirty.

I've had this argument countless times on here, Eventhubs, but at the end of the day, I take solace in knowing that counter picking mentality is a scrub mentality, backed up by the fact that 99% of the best players in competitive fighting games and Street Fighters, are players without this mentality.

My argument has always come from the perspective of the spectator. Counter picking leads to terrible viewing experience because 99% of the time when you're watching a counter picking match, it's either not competitive, or you're watching a sloppy match in which players are using their 3rd and 4th string characters.

I don't tune in on Sunday nights to watch Daigo play Ehonda; Tokido play Zangief, Snakeeyez playing E. Ryu, Pr Balrog playing Fei. I tune in to watch players play at their best, and their best is 100% of the time with their main characters in which they've spent the better part of over half a decade to perfect.

[Chun Liroy]

Ahh yes let's ban a character because she is boring to watch play.

Great logic. You and JCVD belong together with how much smarter you are than all of us.