Gender Selection

[BaneTheBrawler]

Australian Couple spends $50,000 and a trip to the US to undergo gender selection for their new baby



Apparently the disappointment of not having a girl was described by the mother as "mourning the death of a child you never had.” Other articles state that the mother had issues with depression and wanted a girl because she wanted a mother-daughter relationship and the father wanted to walk their daughter down the isle.

*Aggressively hopes the girl ends up being trans*

is it really that bad to want a daughter, though?

I don't think it's bad to want a daughter but to genetically engineer one is going a little far.

That isn't really genetic engineering.

why? would you be less offended if they just aborted all the male fetuses until they got a female? or should they carry every single one to term and then adopt them out? or just take what you get and like it or else?

this is the natural next step of the Right to Choice.

the sort of mentality (parents first) that leads someone to do this tends to emerge in interactions with the other children and almost always leads to a flurry of psych disorders

Would that be lessened by any of the other options I mentioned?

Narcissists gonna narcissist. Fucking over normal people isn't going to change that.

I guess adoption would be a good alternative but I mean, the only other solution is to keep popping out babies until you get lucky and end up having way more children than you can afford or give individual love and care too... or abortion until its female, which I'd argue is thousands of times worse and infinitely more disturbing.



Oh, you beat me too it. Yay slow typing.

Yeah both options are fucking terrible honestly but I don't know why having one sex is such a big deal? Like if I have a kid I literally give no fucks if it's boy/girl/trans/gay/disabled ... I'm not in the business of cherry-picking my babies. Just seems a bit crazy to go out of your way to choose the sex of your child. And like I kind of joked about, if that kid is trans, then what? I know that the chances of that being the case are low so probably won't happen but seriously ... I just don't get the mentality of paying thousands of dollars for something like that, but hey, I guess it's their money.

And yes I know it's not genetic engineering, I just couldn't think of better terminology honestly.

From Grocery Store thread.

[hey]

I don't really see the problem. It is something that will have a big effect on their lives, so if they've got the money, and have a preference, why not? No one is harmed by it.

[Priran]

what hack doctor is getting away with performing IVF on a couple with no fertility issues

anyway, this isn't any more ethically dubious for the parents to be doing than any of the other shit parents get away with doing to kids by virtue of the societal implication that children are their parents' property, so whatever. they're free to piss their money away.

[Aksannyi]

I guess my problem with it is just this whole choosing to have the exact kid they want thing instead of getting what they get and being happy with that.

I mean I guess, inherently, there's nothing wrong with it and (like I said before) it's their money, I just worry about things like - her older brothers for example, do they know that they were all huge disappointments and that their parents paid all that money to make sure they didn't just get another boy? What if the girl turns out to be a huge tomboy or who hates her mother or just not the way they wanted her to? This just seems like disaster waiting to happen. I mean sure she's a girl, what if she's not the girl you always wanted though?

Life is pretty messy. We don't always get the things we want and things don't always work out the way we want. We can't keep throwing our money at our problems hoping that'll fix everything. I guess my fear is that they have this girl and she's not exactly what they expected/wanted and then they decide they don't love her as much. Just seems like if you're bringing a kid in this world you should be able to support it and love it, 100% on both, no matter what happens.

Maybe I'm just too cynical about people at this point.

[quannum]

build-a-babby 1.0 is in pre-alpha testing.

[hey]

I guess my problem with it is just this whole choosing to have the exact kid they want thing instead of getting what they get and being happy with that.

I mean I guess, inherently, there's nothing wrong with it and (like I said before) it's their money, I just worry about things like - her older brothers for example, do they know that they were all huge disappointments and that their parents paid all that money to make sure they didn't just get another boy? What if the girl turns out to be a huge tomboy or who hates her mother or just not the way they wanted her to? This just seems like disaster waiting to happen. I mean sure she's a girl, what if she's not the girl you always wanted though?

Life is pretty messy. We don't always get the things we want and things don't always work out the way we want. We can't keep throwing our money at our problems hoping that'll fix everything. I guess my fear is that they have this girl and she's not exactly what they expected/wanted and then they decide they don't love her as much. Just seems like if you're bringing a kid in this world you should be able to support it and love it, 100% on both, no matter what happens.

Maybe I'm just too cynical about people at this point.

I mean, it's just one aspect of them. Sure, it's a big one, but i don't think it necessarily means the parents aren't going to love them if they aren't "perfect". And if they aren't, then i don't think leaving it up to chance will change that.

[Aksannyi]

Just to clarify, I don't think it shouldn't be allowed.

I just think it's crazy.

[myreality]

Just to clarify, I don't think it shouldn't be allowed.

I just think it's crazy.

Isn't that the next step up from not being allowed?

[Aksannyi]

Where do you get that idea?

I'm personally against imposing restrictions upon what people do with their lives and their bodies, assuming that what they do in their lives is not physically harmful to other human beings. That doesn't mean I'm not allowed to be a judgmental bitch (which is precisely what I'm being, I recognize that) and call someone crazy for something they choose to do.

I'd never spend my money on that kind of thing, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be allowed. But yeah I won't lie, I'd judge someone hard for doing something like that even though it's none of my business how they want to spend their money. It (gender of my kid) just seems like such a non-issue to me.

[Drex]

hy? would you be less offended if they just aborted all the male fetuses until they got a female? or should they carry every single one to term and then adopt them out? or just take what you get and like it or else?

I would be more offended by the first two but it's not clear what's offensive about the last one.

Narcissists gonna narcissist. Fucking over normal people isn't going to change that.

Anyone who says to themselves "you know, the first 3 babies weren't born in the right pigeonhole so let's cram the fourth one in to make sure we get what we want" is a bit narcissistic. Wishing for a girl for whatever reason is a little unfair to the potential child, but a human thing to do. Actually acting on it and forcing the genetics reeks to me of "child as fasion accessory".

For the record I don't think it should be banned either, and I hope the best for them and the kid. It just strikes me as a toxic mindset.

[Rulke]

I usually don't comment on these things, but as the father of an 8 month old boy, my wife and I went into having a kid with "boy or girl was cool" We ended up with a boy and we're stoked. As first time parents though, you can only imagine what life will be like- boy or girl. If parents are allowed to choose their child's gender because "we totally want a boy!" I think there is a little naivety that goes with that because until you've raised the thing a good few years, you can never really know. Picking gender can be followed with "shoulda' gone with whatever-we-didn't-pick"

Not sure if I consolidated my thoughts clearly enough, but basically I don't think picking the gender is wrong, but I don't think its a end all/be all to being a "happy" parent.

[Ksandra]

If we are to be ok with women aborting babies for any reason, we should be ok with this.

As an aside, I thought spinning sperm was a commonly known thing (something about the male sperm separating from the female sperm in a centrifuge...idk the science someone can clarify). So how is this different? Or is that what they did? If so, that shit has been around for fucking forever, how the hell is this news?

[GoggleHead]

What the fuck is this shit?

Get these people some therapy, goddamn.

edit: misunderstood the premise of the article and thought they were performing trans surgery on an infant. This is significantly less terrible, but I stand by my statement: get these people some therapy.

[BaneTheBrawler]

Stuff

I can't answer you. As a mod, I can't make arguments and whatnot in threads I am moderating, which, until there's another poopdeck-specific mod, is all of Poopdeck. Those quotes are from the grocery store thread, which I am not moderating. However, as a mod, I also probably shouldn't go around derailing/shitting up other mods's threads, so I decided to direct the topic here, as it seemed like a strong candidate for philosophical/political discussion.

Anyway, carry on. I'm sure others can answer your argument better than I could anyway.

[Xantavia]

If we are to be ok with women aborting babies for any reason, we should be ok with this.

There is a fine distinction in my view. Aborting because you don't want a kid, period, I can get behind your right to choose. Only wanting the "right" kind of child seems to be heading down a dark path.

As an aside, I thought spinning sperm was a commonly known thing (something about the male sperm separating from the female sperm in a centrifuge...idk the science someone can clarify). So how is this different? Or is that what they did? If so, that shit has been around for fucking forever, how the hell is this news?

Based on the scant article, it appears tests are done on the embryo to determine sex along with potential genetic problems. My interpretation is if it is the "wrong" sex, they would destroy and start over again.

[Not Kuno]

There is a fine distinction in my view. Aborting because you don't want a kid, period, I can get behind your right to choose. Only wanting the "right" kind of child seems to be heading down a dark path.

This is my view on the matter as well. You can get a lot of information from your DNA. What if you decided you only wanted a kid with both delta32 genes or something.

[Priran]

This is my view on the matter as well. You can get a lot of information from your DNA. What if you decided you only wanted a kid with both delta32 genes or something.

I don't know, but there's a politician who thinks he's the only person in the world that knows about wikipedia who might be able to shed a little light on this slippery slope.

[Lyall]

Isn't that the next step up from not being allowed?

I think people who buy sweaters for their pets are crazy. Doesn't mean I think it shouldn't be allowed.

It seems like a bad start to raising a kid, though.

Apparently the disappointment of not having a girl was described by the mother as "mourning the death of a child you never had.” Other articles state that the mother had issues with depression and wanted a girl because she wanted a mother-daughter relationship and the father wanted to walk their daughter down the isle.

There's a lot wrong here. There's no guarantee she won't be a daddy's girl. There's no guarantee she'll want to get married. There's no guarantee of ANYTHING about a kid besides it being your kid. Having expectations of how you want things to go is a ridiculously unfair amount of pressure to lobby against an unborn kid. It seems kind of sick to me.

[Blubbartron]

There's a lot wrong here. There's no guarantee she won't be a daddy's girl. There's no guarantee she'll want to get married. There's no guarantee of ANYTHING about a kid besides it being your kid. Having expectations of how you want things to go is a ridiculously unfair amount of pressure to lobby against an unborn kid. It seems kind of sick to me.

Yeah, that was my take on the situation as well. I'm not opposed to just about any kind of genetic manipulation to ensure healthy babies, and even some "designer" shit like hair/eye color or gender. The problem comes from the reason why these people are reproducing at all.

[Lyall]

Yeah, that was my take on the situation as well. I'm not opposed to just about any kind of genetic manipulation to ensure healthy babies, and even some "designer" shit like hair/eye color or gender. The problem comes from the reason why these people are reproducing at all.

Sums up my feelings just fine. Don't give a damn about insuring aesthetic stuff like hair/eyes/parts/color, but when you're only having a child to satisfy your personal agenda... Therapy. Lots of it.