Gender Selection

[Headspace]

This shit is Gattaca

G-A-T-T-A-C-A

[archibaldcrane]

I really have no problems with this at all. Sucks that it's only an option for rich people, but whatever. Tons of couples desire the opposite sex of a child if their first (one-two-three) are the same sex, let's not pretend their desires are ridiculous or unnatural or uncommon. Hell, my brother in law reversed a vasectomy to try for a boy with my sister after having 3 girls in his earlier marriages. They didn't have the money to gender-select, but I wouldn't have begrudged them if they did and had. They got lucky and had a boy and are both overjoyed, but if you can take luck out of the equation, why not?

[Enkidu]

I don't think that accepting genetic engineering to eliminate certain debilitating genetic diseases should also mean we should be pleased with cherry picking sex, skin color, or even the sexual orientation of our children. We don't have to ban everything or accept everything. There's a place for nuance in our laws.

Wait, what? This has NOTHING to do with genetic engineering. Get that shit out of here.

And you can have your opinions, but do you have any logical basis for them? Let's throw out "sexual orientation" since that's just full retard... Skin color also has nothing to do with this. Your position seems more against adoption or sperm banks then it does IVF-PGD for gender selection, but I think you're just confused about what genetic engineering is...

[Kuya]

Originally I thought xajii was talking about genetic engineering, but i didn't correct myself later since I felt the same objections apply.

[Kuya]

I really have no problems with this at all. Sucks that it's only an option for rich people, but whatever. Tons of couples desire the opposite sex of a child if their first (one-two-three) are the same sex, let's not pretend their desires are ridiculous or unnatural or uncommon. Hell, my brother in law reversed a vasectomy to try for a boy with my sister after having 3 girls in his earlier marriages. They didn't have the money to gender-select, but I wouldn't have begrudged them if they did and had. They got lucky and had a boy and are both overjoyed, but if you can take luck out of the equation, why not?

I'm a bit uncomfortable with treating kids like commodities. Parents impose their expectations on their own children enough as it is without reinforcing it. Aside from that, allowing people to freely choose the sex of their children might squew the ratio of the sexes. I suppose if the technology is limited to a few people, it might not be a big deal, but again, i'm also not a fan of allowing this because only rich people can do it.

Still, i'm not quite sure I would ban it either. I'd prefer to simply discourage it.

[kuronosan]

Personally I think this is silly. If a couple is morbidly depressed because they have a fantasy about the relationship they want with their child, they should not be parents.

Being a parent is about the experience you get along the way. To me, this is no different than the disillusioned dad who always wanted his son to go to this alma mater and play football only to discover he's gay. Or to the mom who always wanted her daughter to go to law school only to find out she wanted to be an artist.

What are these parents going to do when the daughter they buy into grows up and becomes the exact opposite of everything they thought they ever wanted?

[quannum]

I'm a bit uncomfortable with treating kids like commodities. Parents impose their expectations on their own children enough as it is without reinforcing it. Aside from that, allowing people to freely choose the sex of their children might squew the ratio of the sexes. I suppose if the technology is limited to a few people, it might not be a big deal, but again, i'm also not a fan of allowing this because only rich people can do it.

Still, i'm not quite sure I would ban it either. I'd prefer to simply discourage it.

I'll take a baby that grows up to be a 7'4 super scientist with bullet proof skin, 360 night vision and telepathy to go please ... hold the gay.

[Restrat]

I feel bad for the girl, in 10-15 years when she decides to google her family and finds these articles and reads all this stuff. I really can't imagine that having a positive impact on their relationship. Especially if there is already the normal strain of being a teenage, it add a whole new level

[Enkidu]

Again wanting a certain sex is not a psychological defect, it's normal. Falling for the sensationalism in the article is also normal, albeit a little frustrating. I mean come on, the lady said she wants a mother-daughter relationship and the dad wants to walk his daughter down the aisle... That's pretty normal. Being depressed about having 3 boys is also pretty normal. Ask any woman that's had 3+ boys...

I also wouldn't classify this as a "rich" thing, it's really a middle-class thing. Rich people can have as many kids as they want, middle-class families have limits. It's expensive and intensive enough to dissuade people from using it just for kicks, but approachable for most families (~$15k a go). I also have a hard time believing this would ever significantly alter gender ratio's outside of countries like China and India (which have skewed gender ratios due to abortion/infanticide anyways).

[Kuya]

My contention isn't whether it's normal to want your kids to be born with a certain sex. My issue is with actually choosing the sex of your child. It's one thing to say that it's normal to want something and another thing entirely to actually go out and get it. Just because you think it's normal to want a boy or a girl doesn't mean you automatically think it's a good idea to get to choose the sex of your children.

[Lucavi]

Gonna have a Korean MMO-quality baby creator within 10 years.

...Please stop playing with the future-breast slider, dads.

[quannum]

normal

People are going to be birthing intersex giraffekin encephalapods in x years.

[Voyage1970]

Not sure how much my opinion would really matter as I'm not a parent, but if I had a child I'd want it to be a tomboyish girl just because I find them adorable. If I was able to remove the RNG of gender from the equation I probably would just to increase my chances. I know there is no guarantee that my child would turn out this way, and if not I wouldn't really be disappointed as it's still my child. The point isn't that I would be pushing my ideals onto the child, it's more like if I'm spinning a roulette wheel on gender/personality I would tip the scales in my favor as much as possible.

[Aksannyi]

his son to go to this alma mater and play football only to discover he's gay.

Shitty analogy. These aren't mutually exclusive.

And I recognize that's not on topic, but ... seriously, I think we can do better than this, BG.

[kuronosan]

Shitty analogy. These aren't mutually exclusive.

And I recognize that's not on topic, but ... seriously, I think we can do better than this, BG.

That's the best you can do? Shitty analogy? No explanation as to why?

Good thing personal attacks are off limits.

[Aksannyi]

You're literally saying that a homosexual can't play football. That a homosexual son will disappoint his father because he can't go his alma mater and play football. Which is bullshit. Gay people can and do play football.

Now if you had said that the father really wanted to see his son grow up to marry a super hot chick and have tons of alpha-babies but instead he ended up being gay, then you might have gotten somewhere. Or if the father really wanted to see his son go to his school and play football but it turned out he was more interested in graphic design and never set foot on a gridiron. Those would have been better.

[archibaldcrane]

That's the best you can do? Shitty analogy? No explanation as to why?

Good thing personal attacks are off limits.

You've really fallen off lately, you're letting Aksannyi of all people explain the logic problem in your statement? Cmon man.

[Kuya]

Kind of bad timing too, considering Michael Sam is still fresh in the memory.

[Xno Kappa]

The procedure doesn't even sound all gattaca-style crazy if you read the article. I don't see what the issue is if you can afford it.

[kuronosan]

You've really fallen off lately, you're letting Aksannyi of all people explain the logic problem in your statement? Cmon man.

It's not so much not seeing the logic in my statement as it is not appreciating someone like Aks being like "lol ur analogy suck" and then proceed to explain exactly what I was trying to say.

She was pushing semantics instead of, you know, adding to the discussion.

Children rarely grow up to be what their parents wanted. Sexuality wasn't the point.

The point was that the parents should expect their offspring to want to be individuals, and these ones don't seem equipped to handle it if it doesn't go their way.