December 10th Update Weaponskill Adjustments testing

[Byrthnoth]

Compared to Vajra it doesn't stand a chance at all. Compared to Mandau, it might win.

[dasva]

So for testing mandalic stab on thf would it be better to use SA or not?

If they worked in the offhand and stacked with mythics, it would be a massive boost to them. Unfortunately, they don't.

Also about this... for any of these jobs is better to maybe single wield now? Between the no loss tp from dw and occasionally whatever effects being on all hits and now the acc difference would think it might be at least closer now especially for mythics

[dasva]

Vorpal blade: D130 weapon. 22 fstr. 207 str. 124 wsc. 276 base dmg w/ sa

1117, 1179, 1188, 1184, 1145, 1170, 1145

[dasva]

Expiciaon: D130 weapon. 22 fstr. 210 str. 221 dex 226 int. 175 wsc. 327 base dmg w/ sa

1000: 3851, 3730, 3772, 3898, 3806

2000: 9543, 9673, 9397, 9619, 9341

3000: 12541, 12434, 11845, 12400, 11973

[dasva]

Savage blade: D130 weapon. 22 fstr. 210 str 174 mnd.. 192 wsc. 344 base dmg w/ sa

1000: 4197, 4037, 4294, 4246, 4210

2000: 11024, 10703, 11016, 10844, 10685

3000: 14592, 14660, 14248, 14356, 14676

Dat 100 to 200 jump lol

[Byrthnoth]

Vorpal fTP: 1.375 -- 1.366~1.383 (1117 is below 3.0 fTP, probably)
Expiacion fTP:
1000TP: 3.784~3.80 :: Not sure
2000TP: 9.39~9.52 :: Probably 9.5
3000TP: 12.175~12.64 :: Probably 12.25 or 12.5 at 3000 TP, but you'd need more samples to know

Savage Blade (I assume?):
1000TP: 3.96~4.06 :: Probably 4
2000TP: 10.17~10.35 :: Probably 10.25
3000TP: 13.54~13.8 :: Probably 13.75


So Savage Blade is another one that's good to hold 2000 TP on

[Sechs]

Since Shun already transferred TP across al hits, and since they didn't change the TP mod (it's still TP>Attack, going from penalty at 1000TP, to a bonus after a certain threshold) what did they change to make it stronger?
Because they did make it stronger, WS produces more damage now. I assume the WS mod is the same (~100% DEX?).

Has there been any WS where they changed the TP mod? Like it used to be TP>Acc or something and got changed into something else?
Shun could have become awesome if they changed that into a TP>Damage mod.
As it stands now at 5/5 it's a nice, viable alternative to Hi that's situationally superior, produces more reliable damage, but that's still inferior on average.
Blade: Ten seems to be really nice at 3000 now, and I doubt Ku/Jin changed their tier position in the final scenario, despite getting better than they were before.

[Flippant]

D(Mandau): 91+18
STR: 101
DEX: 109
SA bonus: 10%
Crit DMG: +14% (trait)

Mandalic Stab (WSC 65)

100%: 3455 3471 3481 3512
200%: 5167 5462 5473 5526 5596
300%: 7252 7437 7680 7709 7722 7763

Mercy Stroke (WSC 80)

5838 6053 6196 6221

Mercy seems to be 6, Mandalic..~5/8.25/11.75? Not very exciting.

[Atomic Skull]

Mercy seems to be 6

After +40% relic WS damage on Mandau 6 becomes equivalent to 8.4 though so for 100% TP spam it's better than Rudras.

[Byrthnoth]

You can actually exclude 8.25 as the 2000 TP waypoint for Mandalic assuming you had precisely 2000 TP when you did those WSs. It would be likely 8.375 or 8.5.

All the quantifiable results have been added to the wiki.


Sechs, Shun got better because they bumped its fTP/hit from 0.6875 to 1.

[Sechs]

Oh it was 0.6875 before? ><
Thought it was 1 even in the old version.

[Byrthnoth]

Nope~!

Also, these two I still have questions about:

4.943478875229617069379680655645

Langly Blade: Metsu - 4.786~4.943

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/124376-December-10th-Update-Weaponskill-Adjustments-testing?p=6292133&viewfull=1#post6292133


Dasva - Onslaught

* [http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/124376-December-10th-Update-Weaponskill-Adjustments-testing?p=6292137&viewfull=1#post6292137 December 2014 re-testing (Dasva, BG)]

[Langly]

I'll double check the metsu information this evening.

[Finuve]

So how does Shun compare to Hi now?

Im seeing:
Hi: 5.0 fTP 80% AGI mod can crit
Shun: 6.0 fTP (with belt and gorget) 85% DEX

Am I right that with dual wield they are 6.0fTP and 7.2 fTP?

[Byrthnoth]

*ust looking at these numbers and the spreadsheets, I do not see any way that 1H DDs could be inferior to 2H DDs now, including SAM.

Some things that have changed:
* gorgets ans belts are worse for high ftp wss, which we have more if now.
* I bet it is safe to retire raider hands +2
* without vajra, climactic flourish is almost certainly superior to sata and will only get better with reforged af3 head.

[Sechs]

So how does Shun compare to Hi now?

There's some posts on FFXIAH.
Haven't seen consistent math posted, just impressions.

Before this patch, Shun was almost always, if not always, worse than Hi, even at 5/5.
Now the gap has closed up a bit, in some circumstances Shun can be even better, but on average it seems Hi is still the best WS and has higher damage potential.
On the other hand, Shun produces more solid/reliable numbers, whereas Hi still has quite a big possible damage range.
SC-wise they offer different options, but Hi makes it easier to reach L3 Darkness so you could say it's better.

Shun is now a decent WS imho, its only limit is the TP modifier. Instead of "damage changes with TP" it has "attack changes with TP", it's a penalty at 1000, it's a bonus somewhere above that.
I think this kinda creates a bad scaling compared to the huge increases other WS get when TP goes up, like Rudra, Resolution or within Katana WS even Blade: Ten, which is now very strong at 3000.

Not sure which the "ideal" situation where to use Shun instead of Hi would be, if there's any?

[Langly]

Fodder. Shun should outperform when attack penalties and accuracy isn't an issue and you can be sporting croc helm/gorget/belt. Otherwise Hi is the best performer. The ability to crit helps attack/def ratios anytime you need attack (any relevant content these days).

[Langly]

Nope~!

Also, these two I still have questions about:

4.943478875229617069379680655645

Langly Blade: Metsu - 4.786~4.943

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/124376-December-10th-Update-Weaponskill-Adjustments-testing?p=6292133&viewfull=1#post6292133


Dasva - Onslaught

* [http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/124376-December-10th-Update-Weaponskill-Adjustments-testing?p=6292137&viewfull=1#post6292137 December 2014 re-testing (Dasva, BG)]

Edit: I actually think I WAS being an idiot there. I don't think it could have been 4.9 that wouldn't have allowed for the 6997 hit. So it's some value around 4.7~4.8. Guess it requires more samples.

Edit Again: I retract my previous Edit. This is only proving that the relic bonus seems to have had me by the short hairs. Your ranges still work Byrth. I just like round numbers.

[dasva]

Nope~!

Also, these two I still have questions about:

4.943478875229617069379680655645

Langly Blade: Metsu - 4.786~4.943

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/124376-December-10th-Update-Weaponskill-Adjustments-testing?p=6292133&viewfull=1#post6292133


Dasva - Onslaught

* [http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/124376-December-10th-Update-Weaponskill-Adjustments-testing?p=6292137&viewfull=1#post6292137 December 2014 re-testing (Dasva, BG)]

What questions?

[dasva]

Fodder. Shun should outperform when attack penalties and accuracy isn't an issue and you can be sporting croc helm/gorget/belt. Otherwise Hi is the best performer. The ability to crit helps attack/def ratios anytime you need attack (any relevant content these days).

In that case what about Jin? Higher total ftp can also crit and has stat mods that are more useful to stack. Also I believe you tested Ku at 1.25? Can't crit but would put it's ftp significantly ahead of Shun with no attack penalty