Teen kills herself, parents are terrible (Transgender thread)

[hey]

You should probably not be prefacing things with "I'm a suicidal trans woman", just saying.

Why? I am. It is relevant because it allows me to understand why so many trans people kill themselves, in a way that the most of you here cannot possibly. It matters because while people are crying "oh no a person is dead", they simultaneously don't care that they are pushing other people a tiny bit closer to the exact same fate. If anyone truly cares, they should stop telling us what trans people are supposed to be upset about, and start listening to what we have to say about it. Otherwise, stop pretending you care.

[Gokku]

Why? I am. It is relevant because it allows me to understand why so many trans people kill themselves, in a way that the most of you here cannot possibly. It matters because while people are crying "oh no a person is dead", they simultaneously don't care that they are pushing other people a tiny bit closer to the exact same fate. If anyone truly cares, they should stop telling us what trans people are supposed to be upset about, and start listening to what we have to say about it. Otherwise, stop pretending you care.

what is the issue? your facing no more oppression as a trans then a minority or those in past years its a shitty time to be trans thats a fact, how you deal with it is your choice.That by no means says dont fight for your rights.

[hey]

what is the issue? your facing no more oppression as a trans then a minority or those in past years its a shitty time to be trans thats a fact, how you deal with it is your choice.That by no means says dont fight for your rights.

The issue is that you're totally wrong about that.

[Guitarman]

Don't even go down the path of "my suffering is worse than anyone else's in history". You'll lose your support real quick.

[Gokku]

The issue is that you're totally wrong about that.

really this is easy bait but being trans now is not worse then being black during and for a solid 40+years after slavery ended. Depression is a bitch but your struggle is in no means worse then those before you.


^ as pointed out dont make that argument. i recognize and accept its not a positive time to be trans but it could be much much worse and instead of woe is me ,i think fighting for change is much more forward focused.

[Aksannyi]

I would say let's not compare them. They're different. They have different struggles and different rights they're fighting for. Nothing good can come from going down that road.

[BaneTheBrawler]

THAT IS ABSOLUTELY THE END OF THAT DISCUSSION. MOVE ON.

[Guitarman]

Edit: sorry Bane, posted same time.

[Blubbartron]

Yes, a person is dead, and that's terrible. But here's the thing: if we don't improve the way we treat trans people a lot more people are going to follow suit. Maybe i'm biased as yet another suicidal trans woman, but to me (and i'm not the only one), it is not inconsequential bullshit. For me, this isn't some little thing about a missing word, or a wrong pronoun. This is my life, and just another show of how everyone thinks i'm worthless trash that deserves to die because i'm trans. It's another reminder that no one cares who i am, they will always think of me however they decide they want to, no matter how wrong it is. That they don't give a single shit if something upsets me and my friends, because "it's inconsequential bullshit, get over yourself".

If you care that she is dead, if you don't want more to follow her, maybe you should listen up, and take notes on what actual trans people are upset by, rather then deciding for yourself what we are allowed to be bothered by. Because i am telling you right here, right now, you are think you're doing no harm, but you are driving more people to do what Leelah did. You are part of the problem. If you don't want to be, maybe you should shut up, stop making excuses, and listen.

Pretty sure making a martyr of a suicidal transgendered teen is more likely to increase suicide rates than the effect of a generalized thread title. But yeah, it definitely seems like you're being overly sensitive. I would agree that if they replaced the pronoun with the masculine form it's not inconsequential bullshit (because it would be vicious trolling), but that's not what happened. Similarly, removing the pronoun from the title isn't erasing her identity. There's a famous quote out there to the tune of "never ascribe to malice that which is equally explained by laziness." Seems apropos here.

While I very much doubt the idea that anyone here considers you trash or that you should die because you're trans, you're right on the money that the overwhelming majority of people don't give a single shit about who you are. You're not part of their life, and humans are literally incapable of caring about every single person on the planet. That doesn't make them mean-spirited, unfeeling assholes. That just makes them people.

Also, for what it's worth, the sanctimony of your second paragraph here is a reason why SJWs get mocked instead of supported. "Shut up and listen" is a great slogan for repeating, but it's a horribly naive world view. Everyone lives in their own bubbled reality that influences what they feel and how they perceive the actions of others. This is especially important when we're talking about feelings/perceptions as opposed to simple facts about reality. That doesn't make their feelings/perceptions right or wrong by default. That's why we need conversations with people with different bubbles to find out if we're living in our own delusion, or perceiving things even remotely accurately.

[Aksannyi]

Also, for what it's worth, the sanctimony of your second paragraph here is a reason why SJWs get mocked instead of supported. "Shut up and listen" is a great slogan for repeating, but it's a horribly naive world view. Everyone lives in their own bubbled reality that influences what they feel and how they perceive the actions of others. This is especially important when we're talking about feelings/perceptions as opposed to simple facts about reality. That doesn't make their feelings/perceptions right or wrong by default. That's why we need conversations with people with different bubbles to find out if we're living in our own delusion, or perceiving things even remotely accurately.

The thing about the idea behind "shut up and listen" is that the people who are not actively being oppressed are not in a position to understand what it's like to be oppressed. If I, a woman, tell a man that I'm experiencing something in my daily life, the response I often get is, "no you're not, I've never seen that." Well of course not, because it's something that predominantly affects women. A man generally wouldn't experience that particular thing. (I don't want to use any specific examples for the moment, just making a point.) Who is in the better position to understand that issue, or oppression, if you will? The man being told about it, or the woman experiencing it firsthand?

That's what's so difficult about this and many other social issues. People who do not experience the type of oppression or issue often don't believe that said things are happening, even when they're being told by people who experience that they are currently experiencing this issue right now. Literally right now. The problem is that just because you're not in a position to experience it for yourself due to your status as a human, be it male, white, cis, or straight; that doesn't mean that it isn't happening. So it is important to listen sometimes, and hear what the person from that other group is trying to say. I'm with hey on this one because I have experienced it firsthand as a woman. It's all too common to be dismissed or told, "that's not a problem," because the person you're telling it to doesn't see or recognize that it is a problem from their (for lack of a better term) vantage point.

[Koul]

Everytime I read something like "Listen and Believe" I think of that evangelical slogan "God said it, I believe it. That settles it" then I laugh. But since religion is terrible I'm sure their slogan is appropriate to mock or laugh at amirite

[Stumblingdrunk]

Everytime I read something like "Listen and Believe" I think of that evangelical slogan "God said it, I believe it. That settles it" then I laugh. But since religion is terrible I'm sure their slogan is appropriate to mock or laugh at amirite

Well I think the fact that we know trans people exist, and we can actually know what they say makes it not at all the same thing

[Koul]

Well I think the fact that we know trans people exist, and we can actually know what they say makes it not at all the same thing

Mabye I'm reading too much into it (lol) but the essence of the slogans are don't have free thought, let me do that pesky thinking for you. It also makes it too easy to say that X person is wrong because they aren't part of Y group. Which can further hinder conversation. But I'm sorry I should just get back to being told what to think.

[NynJa]

Was the entire previous topic closed off, or just the comparing being a trans to slavery? If the latter, heres my post, if not, bane can just delete it.

Spoiler: show

Why? I am.

Regardless, if you are or arent, it doesnt matter. Throwing down "I'm suicidal" is probably the BIGGEST rallying call for help to all humankind. If someone has another one that garners as much sympathy, please feel free to correct me.

Also, using the Tumblr platform as a scapegoat for why these SJWs, aka passionate youth, is equally lazy and counter-productive.

Passionate youth? These are nothing more than destructive assholes doing their anarchistic shit and masquerading it as "a good cause for the better of civilization". Bullying people and ruining their lives is not beneficiary to civilization. It does the opposite, it drives people apart. How is doxxing people and swatting them productive in any way? Answer: It's not.

[Mina]

Comparing trans to slavery is definitely fucking out. Do not attempt to pursue that fucking line of thought I swear to god I will fucking...

I will fucking do some shit in here tonight.

We are not going to have that discussion. Ever.

[Aksannyi]

Passionate youth? These are nothing more than destructive assholes doing their anarchistic shit and masquerading it as "a good cause for the better of civilization". Bullying people and ruining their lives is not beneficiary to civilization. It does the opposite, it drives people apart. How is doxxing people and swatting them productive in any way? Answer: It's not.

Do you really think the majority of people on any platform endorse doxxing or swatting, or harassing or threatening people?

[NynJa]

No, I know that ones out, I was asking if the suicide discussion was closed off too. Did I misword that or something?

[BaneTheBrawler]

The slavery bit, and also the "my woes are worse than yours / you don't have it that bad" with a suicidal person. I will not have it.

That's what's so difficult about this and many other social issues. People who do not experience the type of oppression or issue often don't believe that said things are happening, even when they're being told by people who experience that they are currently experiencing this issue right now. Literally right now. The problem is that just because you're not in a position to experience it for yourself due to your status as a human, be it male, white, cis, or straight; that doesn't mean that it isn't happening. So it is important to listen sometimes, and hear what the person from that other group is trying to say. I'm with hey on this one because I have experienced it firsthand as a woman. It's all too common to be dismissed or told, "that's not a problem," because the person you're telling it to doesn't see or recognize that it is a problem from their (for lack of a better term) vantage point.

There are doctors here in the U.S. who believe Crohn's is a psychosomatic symptom of stress, and provide treatment accordingly. I have not met them, but I hear about them.

I'm going to limit myself to that because I don't want to get too emotionally involved.

[hey]

Similarly, removing the pronoun from the title isn't erasing her identity. There's a famous quote out there to the tune of "never ascribe to malice that which is equally explained by laziness." Seems apropos here.

But it is. Intent is irrelevant here. You don't need malicious intent to hurt people. I'm well aware it was not done maliciously. But it doesn't matter. The fact that it wasn't even considered is a problem. The fact that, after it was pointed out that it was a problem the response was "thanks for the concern, but we don't care, we're not changing it" is a problem. Again, as i've said many times, it is okay to make mistakes. It's okay if you accidentally do something that upsets someone. But when you do, you need to apologize, and try to make it right. You do not tell them to get over it, it wasn't a big deal. Because you may not have intended to hurt them when you first did whatever you do, but when you refuse to even so much as apologize for it, you show that you don't care that you hurt them. That is just as bad, if not worse than hurting them in the first place. If you accidentally stepped on someone's foot, and they yelled out in pain, would you tell them "stop crying you baby it wasn't that bad"? I sure hope not. When you accidentally hurt someone, the only right thing to do is to apologize and try not to do it again.

While I very much doubt the idea that anyone here considers you trash or that you should die because you're trans, you're right on the money that the overwhelming majority of people don't give a single shit about who you are. You're not part of their life, and humans are literally incapable of caring about every single person on the planet. That doesn't make them mean-spirited, unfeeling assholes. That just makes them people.

Sure, maybe no one here. But it is more common than you think. People do notice me, and they do give enough of a shit to make sure i know any time i'm out by myself that they think i'm a freak, queer, faggot, tranny, and that i should do the world a favor and kill myself. I'm not asking for anyone to care about me, i'm asking to be shown the same respect that everyone shows to other random strangers they happen to see.

Also, for what it's worth, the sanctimony of your second paragraph here is a reason why SJWs get mocked instead of supported. "Shut up and listen" is a great slogan for repeating, but it's a horribly naive world view. Everyone lives in their own bubbled reality that influences what they feel and how they perceive the actions of others. This is especially important when we're talking about feelings/perceptions as opposed to simple facts about reality. That doesn't make their feelings/perceptions right or wrong by default. That's why we need conversations with people with different bubbles to find out if we're living in our own delusion, or perceiving things even remotely accurately.

Yes, straight white men do tend to get quite upset when you tell them their opinion isn't wanted. We are talking about the feelings of trans people. Your opinions are irrelevant to that because you're not trans. You don't know how we feel. I'm not saying you can't join the discussion, but stop telling us how we should feel, what to think, or how to act.

[Mina]

I just wanted to make sure I underlined that fact.

As for suicide, this thread is actually about a transgender girl who committed suicide... actually two now including the one Aks posted today.
I can't tell you to not discuss that in this thread.

I guarantee you if I was able to stop people from committing suicide before they did so, I would have tried everything in my power. I just never knew they needed the help because they did not want me to know. They hid it well and once I found it, it was far too late obviously to do anything. So I'm quick with the switch when I hear someone even say it as an aside. It's no joke.