Teen kills herself, parents are terrible (Transgender thread)

[hey]

your points ridiculous you picked extremely dumb examples to prove a ridiculous point. explain an actual practical example of when treating people how you interact with in daily life the same is wroung because they are trans.

example:
I open doors for anyone if i see them coming : explain how this matters if the person is trans

Give me an actual counter argument otherwise you seem to want special treatment and thats the bullshit i was talking about.

I'm not going to play this game with you. I already gave two perfectly good examples of where treating people identically is disrespectful in one case, but not in others.

[BaneTheBrawler]

ooooookay, i'm really not sure how much of this last bit of conversation is trolling and how much is legit, so I'm going to ask you folks to move on to something else for now. Infractions may be incoming, we'll see.

Turkish transgender woman commits suicide “I couldn’t because people did not let me”

Courtesy of Aks. Keep it clean, folks.

Because Bane already posted the link and you are all able to read, I really thought that this would be a good addition to the thread. We need to continue to share when there is violence against transgender women and men, up to and including suicides. As hey has pointed out, people don't care - part of the reason I feel this is the case is because when it happens, it isn't widely known through the media, for reasons that I mentioned before about the media's aversion to reporting on suicides.

I find that in order to get people to recognize that this is a problem, people need to be aware of it happening. Leelah wasn't an isolated incident, it was just the combination of her suicide note and the other factors which brought her story to the forefront. Her plea to "fix society" has already spurred activism. Still, people will forget or go back to their "this doesn't affect me" brand of apathy, and I feel like we can't let that happen.

Her name was Eylül Cansın, and she killed herself due to the difficulties she faced as a transgender woman.

This was probably already posted but there is a petition in We the People to ban LGBT conversion therapies:

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...erapy/QPbYj38G

Why not these? They were quickly buried, barely discussed.

[hey]

nvm

[Aksannyi]

Please sign the petition. The President may be unable or unwilling to really give it much traction but at least make sure it crosses his desk.

Also (and I know this may seem stupid to some of you), tomorrow is #PinkForLeelah day, basically - paint your ring fingernail pink for Leelah tomorrow (oh shit it's after midnight - today, then, the 6th). The idea is not just to do something silly and pointless, but to raise awareness. If you have one random pink finger, people may ask you about it, and that's your chance to talk about what happened to Leelah, the danger of conversion therapies, and how people can help and join the cause. I know most of the forum is male here and probably gonna think "lolno not painting my nail" but it's for one day.

Also, consider donating either to Leelah's Law to help fundraise for this and future advocacy, or to other transgender rights groups like Transgender Human Rights Institute. http://www.transrightsnow.com/

[Gokku]

for the record im not trolling hey , i just do not understand this ass backwards logic thats heavily prevalent or even how its applied logically. This ideal of treating everyone equal is what we want but dont treat us equal because we need to be treated differently. this pops up constantly in the fem thread and in the LGBT violence thread and so on. Its not applied equally its not balanced its a set up an to question it is never meet with actual response.

As for the turkey link , that is sad its going to be a long time before the middle east as a whole even gets to our level of "acceptance" there needs to be an equivalent to an underground railroad to get them out and to more civilized sections of the world.

[hey]

for the record im not trolling hey , i just do not understand this ass backwards logic thats heavily prevalent or even how its applied logically. This ideal of treating everyone equal is what we want but dont treat us equal because we need to be treated differently. this pops up constantly in the fem thread and in the LGBT violence thread and so on. Its not applied equally its not balanced its a set up an to question it is never meet with actual response.

As for the turkey link , that is sad its going to be a long time before the middle east as a whole even gets to our level of "acceptance" there needs to be an equivalent to an underground railroad to get them out and to more civilized sections of the world.

Equal, yes, identically, no.

[hey]

Also (and I know this may seem stupid to some of you), tomorrow is #PinkForLeelah day, basically - paint your ring fingernail pink for Leelah tomorrow (oh shit it's after midnight - today, then, the 6th). The idea is not just to do something silly and pointless, but to raise awareness. If you have one random pink finger, people may ask you about it, and that's your chance to talk about what happened to Leelah, the danger of conversion therapies, and how people can help and join the cause. I know most of the forum is male here and probably gonna think "lolno not painting my nail" but it's for one day.

Ohhh, i hadn't heard of this. Done!

Spoiler: show

[Aksannyi]

I did mine earlier. Closest I had to pink was magenta.

Spoiler: show

Here's the link to the tumblr post it originated from. http://ayyyyytyleroakley.tumblr.com/...ernail-pink-to

[Acevalefor]

I have been to many, many places and very rarely experience, or even see people side-glancing, etc. I could also give two shits what people think of me. Maybe that is the key. I don't actively look for the people who are staring at me or making fun of me for being fat/ugly/short/wearing glasses/etc. They can fuck off and die and I will continue to live my life without regard to their problem with me.

I understand suicidal thoughts and depression. I have dealt with depression for a long time. What I posted above is part of my coping mechanism. My dad was a closet gay in the 80s when AIDS was big and scary. Several of his friends took their own lives. Attending those funerals and trying to understand, as a young child and, eventually, a teenager what lead to that decision is what tempered my empathy for the downtrodden. When someone spends so much energy arguing about a pronoun, it completely devalues the real problems faced that need to be addressed.

You can't come out swinging and just beat everyone over the head over the slightest misstep. Have a conversation. Understand that you will not change people in an instant. Understand that you may not change them ever. Try to see things from another point of view. Take off the victim glasses that you have, possibly unknowingly, been wearing and talk to people without assuming you are being oppressed by everyone. I have met many people who start conversations with everyone they meet with hostility, ready to defend themselves before they are even attacked. The vast majority of people just have zero experience with trans people so don't even know if they have offended someone. I certainly don't think less of anyone over their gender identity. Last semester, there was a girl in my study group whom I suspect was trans, but it never even came up. It didn't matter at all. Neither did the fact that I was married with 5 kids, or another guy was just coming out as gay trying to find himself. No awkwardness, no weird looks, just working together and having great conversations. This is much more productive for social acceptance than the vitriol coming from the eternally offended on the internet.

That was not directed at anyone in particular. This is just me trying to type out what I am thinking and probably failing. The point is, I am not here to judge anyone and will never look down on someone over their gender identity. I will respect you until you do something to lose that respect.

[BerenTebogo]

Just because I don't say it enough, and in my heart of hearts I truly mean it, and want you to know just how much it matters to me:

You have fat hands, Aks.

[Acevalefor]

You two have shorter nails that I do and I bite my nails...

[Aksannyi]

Just because I don't say it enough, and in my heart of hearts I truly mean it, and want you to know just how much it matters to me:

You have fat hands, Aks.

My hands are super small, it drives me nuts sometimes. Actually that was more like an extreme closeup, I don't think my hands are fat. Dammit you got me all insecure about my hands now. :/

And Ace, I bit my nails all through grade school so they are very nubby. I did just cut them like two days ago though, they were starting to get in my way.

[NynJa]

you painted over the cuticle. why did you paint over the cuticle, and onto your finger? Were you that kid who could never color within the lines?

[hey]

I have been to many, many places and very rarely experience, or even see people side-glancing, etc. I could also give two shits what people think of me. Maybe that is the key. I don't actively look for the people who are staring at me or making fun of me for being fat/ugly/short/wearing glasses/etc. They can fuck off and die and I will continue to live my life without regard to their problem with me.

I understand suicidal thoughts and depression. I have dealt with depression for a long time. What I posted above is part of my coping mechanism. My dad was a closet gay in the 80s when AIDS was big and scary. Several of his friends took their own lives. Attending those funerals and trying to understand, as a young child and, eventually, a teenager what lead to that decision is what tempered my empathy for the downtrodden. When someone spends so much energy arguing about a pronoun, it completely devalues the real problems faced that need to be addressed.

You can't come out swinging and just beat everyone over the head over the slightest misstep. Have a conversation. Understand that you will not change people in an instant. Understand that you may not change them ever. Try to see things from another point of view. Take off the victim glasses that you have, possibly unknowingly, been wearing and talk to people without assuming you are being oppressed by everyone. I have met many people who start conversations with everyone they meet with hostility, ready to defend themselves before they are even attacked. The vast majority of people just have zero experience with trans people so don't even know if they have offended someone. I certainly don't think less of anyone over their gender identity. Last semester, there was a girl in my study group whom I suspect was trans, but it never even came up. It didn't matter at all. Neither did the fact that I was married with 5 kids, or another guy was just coming out as gay trying to find himself. No awkwardness, no weird looks, just working together and having great conversations. This is much more productive for social acceptance than the vitriol coming from the eternally offended on the internet.

That was not directed at anyone in particular. This is just me trying to type out what I am thinking and probably failing. The point is, I am not here to judge anyone and will never look down on someone over their gender identity. I will respect you until you do something to lose that respect.

If everyone was like that, then the world would be a much better place. Unfortunately, that's not the case. I do understand that most people don't (knowingly) interact with trans people very often, and therefore don't really know how to. That's okay. The important part is that you try your best, apologize if you upset someone, and listen when someone tries to explain. If you do that, then i will not have a problem with you.

[Aksannyi]

you painted over the cuticle. why did you paint over the cuticle, and onto your finger? Were you that kid who could never color within the lines?

I am terrible at painting my nails. And no, I color beautifully.

If anyone else would like to discuss my hands, make a thread in spam or something. I can't guarantee I will respond to it because I'm going to bed shortly, but I don't want to keep derailing this thread.

[hey]

You two have shorter nails that I do and I bite my nails...

I just cut them roughly 10 minutes prior to taking that picture. They had gotten too long, whatever.

you painted over the cuticle. why did you paint over the cuticle, and onto your finger? Were you that kid who could never color within the lines?

My hands are really unsteady. This is why i don't normally paint my nails. I did do better than aks though!

[Acevalefor]

If everyone was like that, then the world would be a much better place. Unfortunately, that's not the case. I do understand that most people don't (knowingly) interact with trans people very often, and therefore don't really know how to. That's okay. The important part is that you try your best, apologize if you upset someone, and listen when someone tries to explain. If you do that, then i will not have a problem with you.

And here is the human part of me; I had a guy at work tell me not to wave my finger at him when I was trying to wave him over to come help unjam the machine. The production floor was so loud that verbal communication was out of the question. Waving at him then motioning for him to come here was logical and effective. He told me that it offended him to be treated like an animal (because he was Samoan. Not sure why that made a difference, but he was sure to tell me) being called to heel. I told him to shut the fuck up and get over it, then proceeded to tell him to do his job and get the machine back up and running. I was wrong to jump on him like that, but getting offended over someone waving you over to do your job is ridiculous. The reason I told that story is because sometimes, someone taking offense to something does not require an apology. They need to get the fuck over it and understand they are not special enough for me purposely offend. I ended up firing that guy for threatening another employee when the other employee was smoking in his car. Apparently, that was offensive to him too. Where is the line drawn? I am completely reasonable and will admit when I am wrong, but I will not apologize for your irrational attitude or offense toward someone else smoking in their car where you don't even have to deal with it.

[NynJa]

I ended up firing that guy for threatening another employee when the other employee was smoking in his car.

I read that as random employee was smoking in samoan's car, and it was only clarified that the random employee was smoking in his own car at the end. I was about to say that I too would get pissed off if someone started smoking in my car (I dont smoke).

[hey]

They need to get the fuck over it and understand they are not special enough for me purposely offend.

Or to try not to do it again, apparently. That's the problem. If you didn't know, then whatever, that's fine. But how about not doing it again? Would it really have been such a problem to ask him what he'd rather you do to call him over?

[Acevalefor]

Or to try not to do it again, apparently. That's the problem. If you didn't know, then whatever, that's fine. But how about not doing it again? Would it really have been such a problem to ask him what he'd rather you do to call him over?

When we are 150 feet apart and the decibel level is 90+, hand gestures are the only way to communicate. It is his own problem if he thinks he is an animal and I am calling him like a dog. There is literally no other way for me to get his attention other than the hand signals that EVERYONE else in the plant uses. It's pretty standardized and nobody else has a problem. In this case, I do not believe I need to change the universal signal for "come over here" because feelings. Do we change American Sign Language gestures because someone is offended?