Teen kills herself, parents are terrible (Transgender thread)

[shepardG]

God damn, I go play Smash for a few hours and this shit lights up.

I stand behind the moderating action taken in this thread. If I had been present I would have done the same. We enjoy a lot of leeway in regards to the kinds of ideas people put forward (in that they can at times be offensive), but slurs such as that do not have a place here. I am glad to see that no one else stooped to that level.

Working on that mod status b, I'm coo wit DAT

[Darkmagi]

Missed two pages, but you seriously think people are born as rapist/murderers? You can be born with flaws in your brain that would make it more likely for those things to happen, but that's hardly even remotely comparable to being born with a different gender.

[hey]

Exactly, thats the difference, ones illegal, and ones not. However, you're saying that "trans people are born that way, so we should accept it", and then you condemn the murderers because they kill people, even though they were born that way.

I think the difference is that one hurts other people, and the other does not. I could accept a psychopath who does not hurt people.

It's always nice to preface something incredibly disrespectful with "with all due respect"
First off I'm not sure how accurate the $20 figure is. Second, hrt for trans women consists of a testosterone blocker (a pill) and estrogen (available as a pill, as an injectable, as a patch, as a gel, or as an implant) These are prescription drugs so there are two ways to get them, from a Dr. or from an internet pharmacy overseas. An internet pharmacy is going to require a credit/debit card that her parents would have had to be unaware of (impossible under age 18) and a safe place to have the items delivered, not a simple endeavor. Accessing trans specific health care is problematic for trans people all over the country at any age. If you happen to live in some of the redder parts of the country it can be impossible to find an endocrinologist willing to work with you and if you do find one they are highly likely to require a letter from a psych. So the $20 a month figure has now grown to include travel expenses to the nearest city where you can find a Dr. willing to work with you the cost of the visit to the Dr. and psych plus the cost of labs and even if you can manage all of that, no licensed physician is going to administer hrt to a minor without parental consent.

$20 is definitely accurate for just the pills, but the other things, indeed are not so cheap/easy. Buying online costs more for the pills, but lets you skip everything else, but this isn't easy for a minor either. The only reasonable way for a minor to get hrt without their parent's permission is to pay cash to someone they know to supply them. And even that's still pretty hard.

It sounds about right, and I'd be willing to bet she knows the price for hrt.

Well, it varies a bit. Most people i've seen pay between $10-30 or so per month, without insurance. Some are more, depending on the specific meds prescribed, and the pharmacy they use. I pay $4/mo with insurance.

[Stumblingdrunk]

Violence is never justified, etc. it's not even a question of that (so don't misinterpret this post). That said, if you're even considering a sexual relationship, that's kinda something you need to be up front with sooner rather than later

why?

[shepardG]

why?

because sometimes guys like vagina's, and when they meet a woman and want to date that woman they want that woman to have a vagina and not a penis.

[Cream Soda]

because sometimes guys like vagina's, and when they meet a woman and want to date that woman they want that woman to have a vagina and not a penis.

Pretty much this.

I'd say it's pretty reasonable for a straight man to be expecting a vagina when the girl's pants slide off. While I respect any person's gender identity, regardless of whether you're a man or a woman, I'm not into penis, so if you have one, I'm not interested in you sexually. Let's say this same person is interested in me and they're expecting me to have a penis. If I had nothing there, I'm sure they'd want to know as well.

Edit: and after 3 anatomy courses and 2 microbiology courses, anal straight up isn't happening; so that's not an option, man or woman, trans-male, trans-female, or any other group I may have missed; so yes, having the vagina is extremely important

[hey]

Edit: and after 3 anatomy courses and 2 microbiology courses, anal straight up isn't happening

RIP my dreams.

[Cream Soda]

Sorry boothang, at least you still kawaii though.

Shit I ain't even going to lie, plenty of attractive trans out there. But the fact that I'm unable to do anything with any of them is barrier enough lol

[Stumblingdrunk]

because sometimes guys like vagina's, and when they meet a woman and want to date that woman they want that woman to have a vagina and not a penis.

Pretty much this.

I'd say it's pretty reasonable for a straight man to be expecting a vagina when the girl's pants slide off. While I respect any person's gender identity, regardless of whether you're a man or a woman, I'm not into penis, so if you have one, I'm not interested in you sexually. Let's say this same person is interested in me and they're expecting me to have a penis. If I had nothing there, I'm sure they'd want to know as well.

Edit: and after 3 anatomy courses and 2 microbiology courses, anal straight up isn't happening; so that's not an option, man or woman, trans-male, trans-female, or any other group I may have missed; so yes, having the vagina is extremely important

So you go on a date or two, she goes down on you and the night ends there. Is this a good thing? Is it a bad thing? Should she have disclosed before then? If so, why? I would imagine that most men would consider a date that results in oral a success. Are there no women that you've gone on a date with whose vaginas you did not eventually interact with?

[hey]

So you go on a date or two, she goes down on you and the night ends there. Is this a good thing? Is it a bad thing? Should she have disclosed before then? If so, why? I would imagine that most men would consider a date that results in oral a success. Are there no women that you've gone on a date with whose vaginas you did not eventually interact with?

I don't think there's any need to tell people on the first date or anything, but it's probably best to disclose before surprising them with a penis. Assuming the first few dates don't end badly, they're going to find out sooner or later anyway, so it's usually best to tell them to avoid wasting time in case it is a deal breaker. If things won't work out anyway, then there's no reason to tell them.

[Cream Soda]

So you go on a date or two, she goes down on you and the night ends there. Is this a good thing? Is it a bad thing? Should she have disclosed before then? If so, why? I would imagine that most men would consider a date that results in oral a success. Are there no women that you've gone on a date with whose vaginas you did not eventually interact with?

Any answer would be speculation, really, since I've only been on one date and that was over 6 years ago. That said, if I could get it to oral and somehow fuck up getting beyond that, I'd probably consider that a failure

[NynJa]

jfc dude..

Yes? If thats your best response to that, then I've made my point.
edit: reading further down, I see there are heterosexual males, and hey, who have backed up my crude point.

If thats something that happened to you and your reaction is "this could be fun", congrats, you're bicurious, and theres nothing wrong with that, but that doesnt mean every male walking the planet is bicurious/sexual as well, and I'm the only close minded asshole out of the ~500 people in USA/Canada. Unless you're going to say theres something wrong with being a heterosexual now?

First off I'm not sure how accurate the $20 figure is.

Are you going to argue with Hey about the number I directly quoted from her?

[Aksannyi]

because sometimes guys like vagina's, and when they meet a woman and want to date that woman they want that woman to have a vagina and not a penis.

See this brings to mind something I was thinking about the other day, and forgive my tangent. Because I had to examine with myself several months ago how I would feel about dating a trans man. Technology hasn't advanced to the point yet where doctors can build a working penis, so if I were to be with a trans man I would have to be okay with no penis. So I had to ask - are genitals what I fall in love with? It was definitely eye-opening there. And some of the more militant SJW-types would call me transphobic for thinking that or examining that part of myself.

To continue that line of thinking, I realized that I don't fall in love with someone over what genitals they have. Sure, sex is important to a relationship, at least in mine, but it isn't everything. There are other ways to get off that don't require penetrative sex.

But I think this is where the hangup comes from for most people. The lack of a particular set of genitals.

Now that being said, as a woman, I am fearful of a lot of creepy men on a regular basis. Roll up behind me in your car while I'm walking, or approach me in a dimly-lit parking lot at night, I'm going to be on edge and cautious. This is hard-wired into my brain at this point, because although most men wouldn't turn violent, there are men who do, and for small things, innocuous things such as, "No, I am not interested in dating you."

So knowing that, you can see where the dating culture for a trans woman becomes incredibly difficult and at times, dangerous. A lot of straight men are extremely scared of other penis, from what I've seen. Sorry boys, but it's true. And men have been known to freak out when they've come across a woman with one, and kill her. Not only does she have to worry about the things that all women have to worry about, but she also has to worry that the man she's with is going to be transphobic. I empathize. I'm sure that the difficulty in finding a partner is also what leads many trans men and women to suicide.

Anyway, that's my take on it, sorry it's kind of long. I have done a lot of thinking on this.

[Aksannyi]

NynJa, most trans women tuck, and do other things to keep their penis from showing up unexpectedly. It's unlikely while dancing with a trans woman that you would feel a sudden bulge.

[Abandon]

because sometimes guys like vagina's, and when they meet a woman and want to date that woman they want that woman to have a vagina and not a penis.

This. Look, I have no issue with whatever you identify with. but if you expect to see me more than once, honesty better be upfront. that bein said, i am a vagina-onry fella, so sorry dudes and trans

[NynJa]

NynJa, most trans women tuck, and do other things to keep their penis from showing up unexpectedly. It's unlikely while dancing with a trans woman that you would feel a sudden bulge.

While it was a hypothetical situation, your own reply says "it can still happen"

[Aksannyi]

While it was a hypothetical situation, your own reply says "it can still happen"

Well if I'm being honest, I actually don't know. I do know that transwomen do the tucking thing, but I can't say for sure if every one of them does.

Is this really worth arguing though? It was kind of an ignorant thing to say, and it's a common fear that men have when they really don't need to have it - the chances of it happening are probably extremely low - yet people still fear it like it's happening all over the place.

[Cream Soda]

To continue that line of thinking, I realized that I don't fall in love with someone over what genitals they have. Sure, sex is important to a relationship, at least in mine, but it isn't everything. There are other ways to get off that don't require penetrative sex.

The thing in this, well, at least if you don't believe in such things as "soul mate", "The only person for me", etc., there are people you are compatible with and people you aren't compatible with. So yes, while a trans-man may be able to fulfill a lot of your needs, there is likely someone out there who can fill all of those same needs while also providing a penis. So if you value sex as anything more than miniscule, why not have someone who is funny, can make you smile, is there for you in your time of need, AND also provide your sexual needs versus, what I'd consider at least, settling for less?

At least that's how I see it. If you're into trans-men specifically for what they have to offer, and they can fulfill your other needs on top of that, I'd say the same thing in why settle for a regular man. (or if you were equally into both, or found the sex not to be important, then that's where your option of either or comes in as long as they can fulfill your other needs).

All comes down to how high of an importance you hold the sex, really. That said, even if it's not sex related, the more of your needs that can be fulfilled, the better. I like to think I live the most actively lazy lifestyle there is. I don't like outdoor shit, but I love my workouts. Other than that, I'm indoors watching anime or gaming. I don't need someone who does all three of those, but with how much time I put into them, if you weren't into AT LEAST one of the three, then even if you were the nicest, sweetest person, and I fell head over heels for your personality, etc. It's probably not going to work in the long term

[Aksannyi]

The thing in this, well, at least if you don't believe in such things as "soul mate", "The only person for me", etc., there are people you are compatible with and people you aren't compatible with. So yes, while a trans-man may be able to fulfill a lot of your needs, there is likely someone out there who can fill all of those same needs while also providing a penis. So if you value sex as anything more than miniscule, why not have someone who is funny, can make you smile, is there for you in your time of need, AND also provide your sexual needs versus, what I'd consider at least, settling for less?

At least that's how I see it. If you're into trans-men specifically for what they have to offer, and they can fulfill your other needs on top of that, I'd say the same thing in why settle for a regular man. (or if you were equally into both, or found the sex not to be important, then that's where your option of either or comes in as long as they can fulfill your other needs).

All comes down to how high of an importance you hold the sex, really. That said, even if it's not sex related, the more of your needs that can be fulfilled, the better. I like to think I live the most actively lazy lifestyle there is. I don't like outdoor shit, but I love my workouts. Other than that, I'm indoors watching anime or gaming. I don't need someone who does all three of those, but with how much time I put into them, if you weren't into AT LEAST one of the three, then even if you were the nicest, sweetest person, and I fell head over heels for your personality, etc. It's probably not going to work in the long term

No, you bring up a good point. And I think for me to really know how important it is, I'd have to date one and find out. I'm already seeing someone, so that isn't an option at the moment, but given the chance to date a trans man, I would not look at that immediately as a dealbreaker. Many others would, and I understand that philosophy. Like I said in my earlier post, I think it's really hard for a lot of people to look past genitals.

And I can't speak for trans people, but I think that most of them wish that last sentence I just wrote wasn't the case - but it is. Unfortunately, that's one of the challenges they face in finding a mate. And until gender reassignment surgeries become easier, or better, or more cost-effective, or even wanted (since hey mentioned that not all trans women want the surgery), it's not likely to change.

And I think part of the challenge is what you might call "levels" of acceptance. Like most of the people in this thread would probably say that they accept trans people and will use correct pronouns and understand that they are who they are, but they would not date them for the reasons I just stated. Others would accept trans people the same way but they would date them. I don't know necessarily where to draw the line and start calling people transphobic though. Because I understand the genitals thing - it does make sense to me. And I think you'd have some people calling a lot of the posters in this thread transphobic when I don't necessarily agree. It's a really tricky issue.

Not sure how else I can explain it - do I need to clarify what I mean further?

[Kuya]

I am actually into trans men. It seems easier for women to make pretty men plus vagina is always a big plus. Obviously i'm talking pre op.

Btw, i really appreciate what the mods have been doing with the thread. I was worried that the thread was gonna get ugly quickly but you guys and gals managed to lay down the law. I appreciate it.