French Magazine "Charlie Hebdo" offices attacked by gunmen

[wipers]

These dudes were barely muslim. They grew up in france, they weren't looking over their shoulders for drones growing up. They were disaffected youth in a country that only acknowledges their existence in order to incarcerate them, and easily swayed by muslim fundamentalist dickheads because the pitch from western society from their point of view was essentially "fuck you".

I'm a disaffected youth I quite possibly could be a Muslim. I too hate western society and have a knack of using violence as a means to an end.

[Tyrath]

These dudes were barely muslim. They grew up in france, they weren't looking over their shoulders for drones growing up. They were disaffected youth in a country that only acknowledges their existence in order to incarcerate them, and easily swayed by muslim fundamentalist dickheads because the pitch from western society from their point of view was essentially "fuck you".

TIL You need to be bombed by drones to be a Muslim. Fuck the Quran and it's teachings.

[archibaldcrane]

'these dudes were barely Muslim their actions were just motivated by fundamentalist Islamic ideology' ?

Pretty much. They weren't raised Muslim, much less to hate the West. France gave them ample reason to do so on its own. Islam just provided an avenue to lash out at a country that didn't really give a shit about them.

[archibaldcrane]

Everyone intentionally missing the point here gives me lolz

[NynJa]

The fact that you think your statement was anywhere near on point was epiclulz. It was almost as good as Maz comparing the sex of a protagonist vs intentionally destroying the environment.

[Andalusian girls]

Pretty much. They weren't raised Muslim, much less to hate the West. France gave them ample reason to do so on its own. Islam just provided an avenue to lash out at a country that didn't really give a shit about them.

i fail to see the subtleties of your statement if it is being presented as a defense of Islam. it only radicalizes and violentizes the disaffected and marginalized of society? patently untrue, but also not much more morally defensible.

[archibaldcrane]

Meeting a charismatic terrorist in prison and gaining something to live/die for by following him is hardly a normal model of "being muslim". I see this more as being presented an opportunity to "belong" as opposed to being so overwhelmed by the truth and light of Mohammed's word that they were outraged by cartoons that lampooned the devout faith they developed, like, 5 minutes ago.

[kuronosan]

Am I the only one that gets what he's saying?

[wipers]

Meeting a charismatic terrorist in prison and gaining something to live/die for by following him is hardly a normal model of "being muslim". I see this more as being presented an opportunity to "belong" as opposed to being so overwhelmed by the truth and light of Mohammed's word that they were outraged by cartoons that lampooned the devout faith they developed, like, 5 minutes ago.

I have yet to meet a charming Muslim. How much charisma does it take to be a terrorist ? We talking George Clooney level ?

[quannum]

I have yet to meet a charming Muslim.

http://static.dnaindia.com/sites/def...ama-04-afp.jpg

[Andalusian girls]

Meeting a charismatic terrorist in prison and gaining something to live/die for by following him is hardly a normal model of "being muslim". I see this more as being presented an opportunity to "belong" as opposed to being so overwhelmed by the truth and light of Mohammed's word that they were outraged by cartoons that lampooned the devout faith they developed, like, 5 minutes ago.

do you really believe he only gained the desire to kill and to die on behalf of Islam while he was in jail when the reason for him being in jail was an attempt to join the Zarqawi Network in Iraq, a decade before this month's massacre ?

and i don't see anyone arguing that the brothers demonstrated normative behavior.

[wipers]

http://static.dnaindia.com/sites/def...ama-04-afp.jpg

Not going to lie I loled.

[archibaldcrane]

You know how some Americans like to shit on non-whites, or non-native born people, or non-Christians? North African immigrants give french people the opportunity to do all 3 at once, with the added bonus of reminding them of their country's failed colonial/imperialist policies!

[archibaldcrane]

do you really believe he only gained the desire to kill and to die on behalf of Islam while he was in jail when the reason for him being in jail was an attempt to join the Zarqawi Network in Iraq, a decade before this month's massacre ?

Let's not pretend that I've read all that much about these dudes, I'm shooting from the hip here

[Kuya]

I think this article encapsulates how I feel on the subject.

I was really incensed by seeing liberals go out of their way to attack the magazine as racist, as if that was any justification for the attack. Forget the fact that the racism allegations are on shaky ground, as the article discusses, but the fact that they would instinctively start calling the magazine racist as they claimed they weren't justifying the attack came off as dishonest.

They got that the magazine spent its time attacking not just islam, but judaism and christianity too. But they would retort that it's not the same thing to attack a religion that represents an oppressed minority in the country as attacking the dominant religion. Attacking their religion, only perpetuates the discrimination. There is some sense in that but I have a problem with it if it is effectively used to say that muslims are beyond criticism for simply being muslim. The entire stance seems to ignore that a victim can also be someone else's oppressor. Like how a conservative muslims in Europe might be a christian's victim, but in the Middle East the conservative muslim might be the oppressor of muslim women, muslim lgbt people and arab atheists. It is that nuance that seems to be lost by some on the left who are intent on lionizing and treating muslims as some sort of "noble savage" that you cannot attack less you feed islamophobia.

The article itself mentions that some on the left might have missed that it's not the same thing to attack certain fundamentalist aspects of certain sects of a religion, such as non-muslims somehow being beholden to the rule of not being able to portray their prophet by sunni extremists, and another thing entirely to attack muslims as a group.

And it is something a bit of a dark comedy that while 12 people are murdered in cold blood, we should have to listen to some liberals come tell us how this is really not about the people murdered, but about western oppression of muslims. It's as if this side of the liberal wing has no sense of proportionality and is so pre-occupied with the concept of victim vs. oppressors that they have no empathy towards people who are shot to death.

There was a thread in this forum that was locked that was about Boko Harem, an islamist organization, murdering over 2,000 black muslims and we have to hear about how the West is ignoring these poor people.

Muslims murder atheists and it's the West's fault. Muslims murder Muslims and it's the West's fault.

At this point I have to pause and ask myself what has the left turned into?

I don't mind a little bit of context as to why muslims fundamentalists exist, but at the same time, can we recognize that we seem to care very little for putting our own christian fundamentalists under context? We don't ask where people like Pat Robertson comes from or where the Westboro Church evolved from, and are instead content with simple absent minded derision.

There seems to be a part of the left that is less concerned with the search for truth and more interested in internecine victim politics.

[archibaldcrane]

So yeah, reading up its basically the french version of the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air but without the strong family figure to get them out of trouble because they were orphans.

Apparently if you don't have a rich uncle in an upper crust neighborhood, you end up in a Qatari jihadist training camp instead. #themoreyouknow

[Andalusian girls]

well said Kuya

[Tarage]

Kuya is the fucking voice of reason in this thread? Jesus christ what happened?

Are you honestly trying to blame all of this on privilege bullshit? I mean I'm sure there's some old colonial issues burred way under the surface but are you honestly trying to tell me that the extreme teachings of specific sects of Islam contributed nothing to this?

It's like you're racing to try to find some way to blame that evil white man any way you possibly can.

[kuronosan]

That's bum for you. It's all Western culture's fault.

[archibaldcrane]

I just think that in all the hysteria about the fact that he's Muslim, it can be a bit overlooked that he's French.