Education Reform Thread

[Ksandra]

Plenty of doctors who are outstanding clinicians and quit after a few years.

So, maybe not very rare.

Great, we are talking about teachers, and what is seen typically about teachers.

[Athas]

And it's your assertion that people who excelled at teaching never once burned out or became frustrated by systemic or administrative issues dropped out or found they preferred different work areas and changed in the same way as physicians?

[Byrthnoth]

(or were teaching while they got a PhD and weren't in it for the single-classroom-scale education life to begin with)

[kuronosan]

Great, we are talking about teachers, and what is seen typically about teachers.

Doctor means teacher. We teach too. And I'm telling you what I typically see too.

You see, alternate perspectives are great and do wonders for changing general viewpoints.

We've both grown. I'm retiring now.

[Ksandra]

And it's your assertion that people who excelled at teaching never once burned out or became frustrated by systemic or administrative issues dropped out or found they preferred different work areas and changed in the same way as physicians?

No. My assertion is that if you get burnt out in two years of teaching it means you couldn't handle it. And the terrible solution to that is to then try and be in charge of other burnt out teachers. It's the blind leading the blind. Like do you seriously think it is smart to have someone lead who got burnt out in two years? Really? How knowledgeable do you think they can be in order to lead it? If they couldn't even teach for two years what ideas are they going to be able to bring to the table to help their own teachers teach for more than two years? I mean fuck most teachers don't even have their binder done in two years.

Usually smarter ones change careers because they couldn't handle it.


Listen y'all, because it's my field I am constantly in teacher groups across the country because it's all about collaboration and learning from others in this field. This is not just some shit Ksandra is saying. Teachers say it EVERYWHERE. The teacher response to this guy has been very very negative for the exact same shit I am saying. The default facto response to anyone being frustrated by a poor admin is, "They probably only taught two years," because this is exactly what happens constantly.


Equally, this guy pushed so fucking hard to keep teachers in the classroom in CT it's ridiculous. You'd think for a blue state they'd have more distance learning, but nope. So many of my teacher friends back home had to be in school. They even had to teach from school even if the kids were at home. It was (and still is) a complete mess. He's also pushing for state testing this year. Guy doesn't give two fucks about teachers.

[Jaybar]

This is a rough hill to die on Ksan. Lots of conjecture without knowing anything about this man's career or aspirations.

[Ksandra]

Doctor means teacher. We teach too. And I'm telling you what I typically see too.

You see, alternate perspectives are great and do wonders for changing general viewpoints.

We've both grown. I'm retiring now.

No comparing doctors to teachers is dumb for a variety of reasons. This is an "out" that has been developed by teachers who couldn't cut it. That doesn't mean it's an out for bad doctors. As well, doctors are focusing on presenting science which is a lot more specific guided tool than say art class.

Equally, teaching is in the unique position where it's "customers" are a requirement and cannot be kicked out even if they do not want to be there. It's a hard field to compare it to any other one especially because of this.

[Ksandra]

This is a rough hill to die on Ksan. Lots of conjecture without knowing anything about this man's career or aspirations.

I mean. We do know things because he was commisioner.

The hill I am mostly on is that he doesn't present good signs. Responders seem to assume I am dealing in absolutes, which I never do, and can't seem to handle any negativity towards the guy.

Guy could amaze us all, but his track record hasn't.

[kuronosan]

No comparing doctors to teachers is dumb for a variety of reasons. This is an "out" that has been developed by teachers who couldn't cut it. That doesn't mean it's out for bad doctors. As well, doctors are focusing on presenting science which is a lot more specific guided tool than say art class.

Equally, teaching is in the unique position where it's "customers" are a requirement and cannot be kicked out even if they do not want to be there. It's a hard field to compare it to any other one especially because of this.

Spoken like someone who has never practiced medicine.

I mean, doctor literally means "teacher". You think educating our patients, students, superiors, or each other isn't teaching? I mean, I could get into the real details on why what you said in this quote is short sighted but frankly it isn't worth the effort.

Quit being so fucking judgmental.

[Ksandra]

I also want to say this is just about disappointment for teachers. Repubs and Dems have been horrible to education in the last few decades, I was kinda hoping for something more than someone that's just going to toe the same political line. And there's nothing to suggest he is going to be anything more.

And again, I could be wrong, just saying it's not starting with a cheer.

[Ksandra]

Spoken like someone who has never practiced medicine.

I mean, doctor literally means "teacher". You think educating our patients, students, superiors, or each other isn't teaching? I mean, I could get into the real details on why what you said in this quote is short sighted but frankly it isn't worth the effort.

Quit being so fucking judgmental.

Ya dumb. Ed code doesn't apply to doctors. What state testing are you giving to your patients? How many IEP meetings do you have each day for your students? Show me the report card you sent home to a parent? How do you apply FAPE in the classroom?

Dept. of Ed literally will have no effect on doctors.

[edit] before any "actually" dept of ed could effect doctors on college costs. But won't effect doctors teaching anyone, unless they are teaching said college class. But this is not what I am focusing on.

[Ksandra]

Doctors teach. Doctors are not public school teachers which is what we are talking about.

[kuronosan]

No, we're talking about you saying the reason this guy stopped teaching is because he couldn't hack it and doesn't have the credentials, and the point I was making was that physicians also go into other fields instead of practicing, not because they were terrible but because maybe they were great and hated the system.

Then you said "DOCTORS AREN'T TEACHERS". Except they are. And you not realizing that is a gross ignorance on your part.

[Ksandra]

No, we're talking about you saying the reason this guy stopped teaching is because he couldn't hack it and doesn't have the credentials, and the point I was making was that physicians also go into other fields instead of practicing, not because they were terrible but because maybe they were great and hated the system.

Then you said "DOCTORS AREN'T TEACHERS". Except they are. And you not realizing that is a gross ignorance on your part.

No you just don't know how to read.

1. I said the guy went into admin because he couldn't hack it, and that is a unique habit of specifically teachers.

2. We are talking about the dept. of ed. If I say teachers it means we are talking about school teachers who fall under the dept of ed. It only takes three braincells to figure out we are talking about teachers that fall under the dept. of ed when we are talking about the dept. of ed.

[Ksandra]

Kuro to help out. We also aren't talking about karate teachers. I know you needed this clarification.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

[Zealot]

While I don't know enough about teaching and am not willing to dive into speculation about the career of a man none of us had heard of three days ago as eagerly as Ksan is, I can indeed confirm that every administration and party has been terrible on education for decades.

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[Gredival]

Basically your problem with him is that he wasn't a trench fighter like you. But that doesn't mean he couldn't have been one or that he wasn't cut out for it.

There is also the possibility he's just self interested and wanted a better quality of life.

Administrators make more. They deal with less headaches, especially in public and low income schools. Yes administration often has different interests than the teaching staff, but at least he's aligned with public school interests and not charters and for-profits.

I'd say the fact he had that path out and open to him says something. You can tell me how the job itself is sacrificial everyone does it for the kids, but I bet you that 95% of public teachers in LAUSD would take an offer to work at Marlborough or Harvard Westlake in a heartbeat.

I think I'm pretty capable. I moved private because it's a better quality of life: 1) it means I didn't need to finish credentialing red tape since I have a doctorate, 2) I work with more privileged students who come from home situations where they are expected to go college so even the non-gifted students aren't lost causes.

I get that it's probably special to make a difference in that one student's life and be the reason they went to college and reached further than their family. But this way I don't have to fight with families who treat me as just a babysitter, I get students who I can teach complex college level subject matter to, and I get paid more. A lot of teachers wouldn't want to do what I do... but there's also a lot of them who wouldn't be qualified to do what I do even if they wanted.

[archibaldcrane]

Doctor means teacher. We teach too.

Oh Jesus Christ stfu

[Gredival]

Oh Jesus Christ stfu

He's mad that other people are calling themselves doctors so he wants to be able to call himself a teacher.

It goes both ways archi

(I've been calling myself a law doctor.)

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[archibaldcrane]

Call me Master or else