Feminist Philosophy

[Aksannyi]

inb4 pictures are actually men bragging about "slaying drunk bitches", which may be unethical, but calling it the same as rape is ludicrous.

No, there is one specific one I'm thinking of that I can't find (though there are others). In the picture the girl is clearly passed out and they're bragging about the things they are going to do, and after the fact, the things they did. I've spent a while looking for it and I have to leave for class soon so I doubt I'm going to find it before then. But it was absolutely disgusting the things they said, and even more disgusting how many people commented and praised them for it.

I really wish I could find it. Also, looking for that stuff is probably the most soul-crushing thing I've done today. People are fucking disgusting.

[Gokku]

I've seen Facebook posts with men doing exactly that. I'm trying to find them.

questions ...
why do you have rapists on your facebook
why are you friends with rapists
why haven't you reported said rapist...
i mean your priority with "rape" is misplaced if you can hop on facebook and find people bragging about it.

example of rape being used correctly in a sentence with context explained.

FFXI :
I as a monk pop counter-stance , Mob precedes to just roflstomp my ass instantly. my observation ..."i just got raped hard by xyz for poping counter-stance". That sentence isnt sexist it isnt misogynistic its accurate in the context that just happened.It hurts no one its directed at a code of data if someones feelings are hurt by a term being used that is not my problem. You cannot say the term wouldnt fit it does its not the most eloquent use of english but thats not the argument at hand.

[Aksannyi]

questions ...
why do you have rapists on your facebook
why are you friends with rapists
why haven't you reported said rapist...
i mean your priority with "rape" is misplaced if you can hop on facebook and find people bragging about it.

They're not my friends. I've seen pictures of Facebook posts taken by others and posted elsewhere (does that clarify it better) that I cannot currently find because I don't remember names or identifying details. I actively unfriend people who constantly state or post misogynistic crap to their feed, and if I saw anyone bragging about rape on my feed the first thing I would do is call the police.

Honestly, why would you even assume that about me?

[Gokku]

because that sentence is absurd? if rape is such an avid thing in your life that you can just hop on facebook and find people you know *in some form or fashion* posting about it then YOU and YOURS have issues well past the scope of this thread is my point.

the notion that the "word" is the issue and not even looking at the context should be a huge red flag a flag you've repeatedly missed in your quest to control how people talk instead of changing thier actual mindset on subjects.

[Aksannyi]

Here, this isn't the one I was thinking about, but this is an example of someone bragging about rape.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...oke-along.html

Whether or not it happened, this is an absolutely disgusting thing to say and something I and many others would take seriously, and says a lot about what kind of culture we live in when people think it's okay to post something like this - joke or not. I'll still try to find the picture I'm thinking of, but I have to head out.

[Lyall]

Here, this isn't the one I was thinking about, but this is an example of someone bragging about rape.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...oke-along.html

Whether or not it happened, this is an absolutely disgusting thing to say and something I and many others would take seriously, and says a lot about what kind of culture we live in when people think it's okay to post something like this - joke or not. I'll still try to find the picture I'm thinking of, but I have to head out.

If it is in fact a hoax, well... Welcome to shock culture? It's not new for people trying to get a reaction out of folks to push the envelope. Hell, that's the entire reason that people get "raped" online in the first place. You're literally being the offended masses that the people in question hope to create by being intentionally offensive. By scandalizing the trivializing of the use of the word "rape" you are buying into the entire reason people post shit like that. You and your friends sharing your outrage by linking that stuff on facebook and going "I can't believe this happened" are feeding the machine.

[Blubbartron]

Here, this isn't the one I was thinking about, but this is an example of someone bragging about rape.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...oke-along.html

Whether or not it happened, this is an absolutely disgusting thing to say and something I and many others would take seriously, and says a lot about what kind of culture we live in when people think it's okay to post something like this - joke or not. I'll still try to find the picture I'm thinking of, but I have to head out.

I'm a cynical person, and I have pretty much zero faith in humanity, but if you think would-be rapists/killers actually TELL PEOPLE THEY ARE ABOUT TO COMMIT A CRIME... I just... I don't know how someone can be that naive. Is it a bad/inappropriate joke? Sure it is. But no sane person would immediately assume they were serious. This kind of attitude is why that fucking grade school kid got suspended for his make believe antics about Lord of the Rings. It's absurd, nuts, crazy, delusional. I need a thesaurus because I can't come up with enough words for the insanity.

[Lyall]

Again, it comes down to desensitizing people.

https://twitter.com/search?f=realtim...ll%22&src=typd

https://twitter.com/search?q=%22im%2...pe%22&src=typd

Very large difference in timestamps on these, and one is certainly more common than the other.

[Salodin]

Aks, why do you feel context is irrelevant to words? And why do you feel one word, in this case rape, can't have multiple meanings with out trivializing its original meaning?

[#686578]

No one's going to argue that rape isn't a terrible evil act. However we need to be careful that we don't over react to certain words out of emotion without using our logic. There are a lot of phrases that if you took them at their literal would be awful that we don't really take seriously because we know better in context.

[Gredival]

inb4 pictures are actually men bragging about "slaying drunk bitches", which may be unethical, but calling it the same as rape is ludicrous.

Not obtaining effective consent is rape. There is no legal wiggle room in this. You can say it's unwise to be that inebriated. You can say that it's impractical for people to expect a man to simply walk away from that. You can say the law over-paternalistically protects drunk people.

But if the alcohol impairs someone's judgment, then they can't say yes.

Gred understands this, but says it doesn't matter because it's very existence is all those things regardless of the context.

What I'm understanding is that regardless of your intent or apathy, the actions or words are still misogynistic, racist, transphobic, etc.

I think what Gred says is that it is representative of the mindset outside of that particular arena. Saying that, essentially, if you don't fit in with the preconceived "norm," your opinion is invalid until you do.

^ This

Stop defending 4chan for the moment. I don't give a shit about 4chan. 4chan's only an example I'm using to try prove a point. You're failing to see the forest because you're focusing on the tree.

Ostensibly. The "norm" that's required, though, is that your identity IS your opinion. The meat attached to the idea is irrelevant. It's not so much that you have to be a CIS-neckbeard-animu person, but that who you are offline has zero merit on your ideas or attitudes. If a completely anonymous group of people come to a consensus that pineapple is in fact the Hitler of pizza toppings, then who those people are doesn't and shouldn't matter in the realm of discussion. It's only when folks try to bring meatspace into a discussion of ideas that it falls apart.

I get that. I really do. The problem isn't who you are specifically, it's that you are trying to be someone in a place that values collectivity. Anon is legion, yadda yadda.

The problem is that this isn't a pure issue. Misogyny, homophobia, etc. don't just exist on 4chan as only deterrents to put someone in place for stating irrelevant information. If you actually look on 4chan, now and ten years ago, you will see threads all the time where males that break anonymity, but there are no "repercussions" for doing that. Not as in "I'm a guy so I think that..." but as in any type of subtle clue that they are male. But if a female breaks anonymity it's the cardinal sin.

The clearest way I can say it is this. If one anon makes a thread about how his gf breaks up with him, no one will post "DICK OR GTFO." But another makes a thread about how her bf breaks up with her, first response will be "TITS OR GTFO."

The actual words "TITS OR GTFO" are completely 100% irrelevant. The argument about the harmfulness of the words is a separate one (and not one I'm engaging in). It doesn't matter if that's literal or not. It doesn't matter if that's a deterrent or not. It doesn't matter if the message is "CONFORM OR GTFO" vs. "Women aren't welcome."

What matters is the disparity in reaction. What matters is that anonymity is only important insofar as you deviate from the norm. It's okay for a male to accidentally out himself, but not a female. The words, and their context, is irrelevant. What matters is there is any disparate treatment.

It's a reflection, however minor, of the basic principle that the minority has to apologize for who they are. That sort of prejudice happens everyday (outside of 4chan) in subtle ways, and it is internalized by people. That's how/why sexism still exists in first world modern society.

You know why "Check your privilege!" is annoying? Because people who haven't demonstrated any discriminated animus are being told that they are a problem merely because of who they are. They have to apologize for being male/white because it means they are CIS scum.

Sound familiar yet?

[Gokku]

So what would you put forward as a solution?

[NynJa]

Weve been over the drunk sex thing, and the only way its rape is if the girl is incoherent or passed out. Theres been no successful cases of someone blowing a .09, having sex, then crying rape.

[Blubbartron]

Weve been over the drunk sex thing, and the only way its rape is if the girl is incoherent or passed out. Theres been no successful cases of someone blowing a .09, having sex, then crying rape.

Depends on what you mean by successful. The mere accusation is enough to permanently ruin your reputation, especially when something like this can't be "proven" false. And that's even without any malicious intent by the accuser. It's a fun fact about the human mind that people can convince themselves that something happened after the fact, even if it didn't, and people are especially able to do this if the events in question are a little hazy thanks to alcohol. If they convince themselves something terrible happened, they can still suffer from very real emotional distress. Keeping that fact in mind is handy when approaching this topic, and makes the entire thing one huge fucking mess to figure out.

[notorious bum]

I wonder if some posters here, who love a game of semantics tango, also partake in the mental gymnastics observed in Chris Kluwe's Twitter mentions on a daily basis. I wouldn't be shocked, since I don't recall much attention given to him lately, despite the work he puts in against the cesspool of psychotic boys raging and threatening women and "SJWs" all day.

[Teryu]

Isn't Chris Kluwe a huge racist?

[Melena]

Isn't Chris Kluwe a huge racist?

huh, where would you get that. I've been following his posts for a long time and he's never come off as racist.

[notorious bum]

Must be a thing on 4chan, idk.

'Revenge porn' Web site creator convicted; he victimized thousands of women http://wapo.st/1D8BK2J

[NynJa]

Depends on what you mean by successful. The mere accusation is enough to permanently ruin your reputation, especially when something like this can't be "proven" false. And that's even without any malicious intent by the accuser. It's a fun fact about the human mind that people can convince themselves that something happened after the fact, even if it didn't, and people are especially able to do this if the events in question are a little hazy thanks to alcohol. If they convince themselves something terrible happened, they can still suffer from very real emotional distress. Keeping that fact in mind is handy when approaching this topic, and makes the entire thing one huge fucking mess to figure out.

Dont need drunk sex accusation, you just need an accusation. Look at Cos (regardless if innocent or not), one accusation and all of a sudden every girl he may have gaven jello to is coming out of the woodwork crying rape.

[thetruepandagod]

The mere accusation is enough to permanently ruin your reputation, especially when something like this can't be "proven" false.

At least make it a huge uphill battle to clear your name. While the one lying about your rape gets to meet obama and go on the cover of magazines.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...-rape-her.html