Feminist Philosophy

[archibaldcrane]

(many) rapes are especially terrible when viewed among other crimes. Is this in doubt?

[archibaldcrane]

But more importantly, it's worse to treat rape victims poorly on average than victims of most other crimes because on average a rape victim is going to be more traumatized.

[archibaldcrane]

Hopefully that basic obvious statement holds up under withering BG scrutiny.

[Salodin]

I shouldn't have posted. I'm on vacation and my stupid ass can't stay away from fucking BG, lol. If it's still relevant I will respond to this thread when I get home, but I really don't feel like getting into philosophical feminist debates when I'm just trying to rest my feet after a long day seeing the sights.

Enjoy your vacation. I'm sure the question will pop back up when you decide to return.

[Lyall]

But more importantly, it's worse to treat rape victims poorly on average than victims of most other crimes because on average a rape victim is going to be more traumatized.

While I don't disagree with your points, I do want to home in on this one here. "More traumatized" is relative, especially when dealing with catastrophic circumstances. All trauma is relative. Someone who lost their legs because a drunk T-boned their car has it as bad as someone who's house got burned down by an arsonist has it as bad as someone who got shot and nearly died during an attempted robbery has it as bad as someone who met someone, had a drink and woke up naked somewhere.

That is to say, all of these things are soul-crushing and terrible. I dare you to tell anyone of the above they should be thankful they aren't someone else of the above. It just doesn't hold up in my opinion. You can't tell someone that the destruction of their entire life isn't as bad as someone else's life similarly-but-differently being destroyed.

[Salodin]

How about some perspective? At least you're not eating mud patties in Haiti. They should all just stop complaining, amiright? Or maybe they all just need to complain equally loud? What are you getting at archi?

[archibaldcrane]

You guys are fucking insane.

[Charismatic]

If you're argument is that all crime victims get treated like shit, well, I guess I'll take that as agreeing that rape victims are treated like shit. Cool.

I do agree that victims of all types of crimes are treated in a way that they would feel is being treated like shit. You may recall, however, that you were trying to separate rape out from the rest of all crimes. That's the part I disagreed with.
I'm not sure why you're trying to twist things around but I do believe we can both agree on that point (unless you decide to change your mind again.)

[archibaldcrane]

(many) rapes are especially terrible when viewed among other crimes. Is this in doubt?

But more importantly, it's worse to treat rape victims poorly on average than victims of most other crimes because on average a rape victim is going to be more traumatized.

Please tell me how many more weasel words you need me to use to prevent you guys from stating "yeah well if you were kept in a Croatian torture dungeon for three decades that's worse than being 'raped' after one shot of bud light so rape really isn't so bad after all"?

Seriously, how many do you require?

[Lyall]

Please tell me how many more weasel words you need me to use to prevent you guys from stating "yeah well if you were kept in a Croatian torture dungeon for three decades that's worse than being 'raped' after one shot of bud light so rape really isn't so bad after all"?

Seriously, how many do you require?

It's difficult when your stance appears to be "Yeah, but remember that rape is the worst."

No shit it makes sense to not treat rape victims like the average victim; the average crime isn't a world-shattering one. No one was ever disagreeing with you there, and Chari was just pointing out that if even when you're a victim you're going to be asked "are you sure you didn't do anything to bring this on yourself?" If they find my pasty white ass beat up and robbed in a shitty part of DC, I'm probably going to get asked if I said anything to the people who did the robbing.

Getting your iphone stolen is objectively less serious than waking up naked somewhere. No one's arguing that.

[Xajii]

one shot of bud light

Power Hour rape is a serious problem archi

[archibaldcrane]

I do agree that victims of all types of crimes are treated in a way that they would feel is being treated like shit. You may recall, however, that you were trying to separate rape out from the rest of all crimes. That's the part I disagreed with.
I'm not sure why you're trying to twist things around but I do believe we can both agree on that point (unless you decide to change your mind again.)

I've never reported a rape to police. I wouldn't be surprised if no one in this thread has. We are required to listen to what people who have done so say about the experience if we wish to have any idea what it is like.

I understand that listening to the experiences of female rape victims (or women in general) is extremely unpopular in this thread, but I have no hope of changing that.

I have reported my apartment being robbed and my car being broken into / stolen to the police. I wasn't treated like shit in those circumstances, so that's the extent of personal experience I can bring to this topic.

I believe that on average rape victims are more questioned/accused of doing something wrong in the process of reporting a rape to police than the average victim of most other crimes, and that it is worse to do so because of the relative trauma involved. That's my argument.

[archibaldcrane]

It's difficult when your stance appears to be "Yeah, but remember that rape is the worst."

It often is. It's horrible.

[Charismatic]

I believe that on average rape victims are more questioned/accused of doing something wrong in the process of reporting a rape to police than the average victim of most other crimes, and that it is worse to do so because of the relative trauma involved. That's my argument.

The yellow part is irrelevant.
I'm not going to touch that, that's all opinion anyway. I don't care to argue opinions.

However, I don't believe that rape victims are more questioned than any other in any case where things aren't completely black and white. Heck, even in cases where it is black and white people still get such questions when its someone's perception that the victim made an "irresponsible" decision. I truly believe that's what it comes down to. I think its more of the circumstances surrounding many rapes than the crime of rape itself that creates this perception for you.

[Salodin]

I believe that on average rape victims are more questioned/accused of doing something wrong in the process of reporting a rape to police than the average victim of most other crimes, and that it is worse to do so because of the relative trauma involved. That's my argument.

There are many reasons for that, one of the biggest being there is often no physical evidence of the crime taking place (unless she went to the police/hospital immediately afterwards). You really think there's a problem with scrutiny when there is often nothing more to go on than a person's word?

[Charismatic]

There are many reasons for that, one of the biggest being there is often no physical evidence of the crime taking place (unless she went to the police/hospital immediately afterwards). You really think there's a problem with scrutiny when there is often nothing more to go on than a person's word?

Another good point.
Also, a lot of times this scrutiny isn't even to blame the victim (though some people may not see it this way)... but oft-times to protect them. Gotta make sure your story is air-tight if that's all you have to go on or the accused's defense will poke holes all through that shit if they can.

[Vandalhart]

I understand that listening to the experiences of female rape victims (or women in general) is extremely unpopular in this thread, but I have no hope of changing that.

I don't know how this conclusion has been made. As far as this thread is concerned, no one here has spoken out saying that they are a woman who has reported a rape to the police. To me, they would be best person to talk to about the topic, because they have had to go through it. I realize it could be something that can be very upsetting to a person who's been raped, so I understand why they wouldn't want to discuss it.

[archibaldcrane]

If there is reason to believe that the accuser is lying, scrutinize away.

In the absence of such evidence, it's inappropriate to suggest the victim (of any crime) did something to cause them to be victimized. Judging a rape victim's clothing or drinking habits or choice of neighborhood does un-rape them, nor does it bring their rapist closer to justice.

In lieu of thinking a victim is lying, save the scrutiny for the accused.

[thetruepandagod]

If you don't think police question people in crimes as much as rape victims you haven't dealt with much crime or police. And what the 2 above said, it isn't easy to charge someone with a crime when there is nothing but one persons story. There are gigantic groups of people paid to check out insurance fraud, disability fraud, misreported thefts etc, but approaching rape with the same level of inquiry is somehow taboo.

In the absence of such evidence, it's inappropriate to suggest the victim (of any crime) did something to cause them to be victimized. Judging a mugging victim's clothing or drinking habits or choice of neighborhood doesn't un-mug them, nor does it bring their mugger closer to justice.

These things would often be brought up in this scenario as a way to avoid future muggings. Never been told, oh sorry your house was broken into and everything was stolen, you may want to invest in some home security especially if you continue on living in this area?

[Salodin]

If there is reason to believe that the accuser is lying, scrutinize away.

In the absence of such evidence, it's inappropriate to suggest the victim (of any crime) did something to cause them to be victimized. Judging a rape victim's clothing or drinking habits or choice of neighborhood does un-rape them, nor does it bring their rapist closer to justice.

In lieu of thinking a victim is lying, save the scrutiny for the accused.

Ok so the accused, when asked to respond to the rape allegations, says "Nope, didn't do it. Sorry." Now what? Do you just assume he's guilty any ways, or do you question both parties on specifics and see where inconsistencies lie? Again, what the heck are you trying to say? That this is not ok, or that other crimes don't go through this level of scrutiny (even though both assertions would be false)?