Feminist Philosophy

[archibaldcrane]

The dedicated campaign to deny or minimize rape victim's experiences is as impressive as it is fucking pathetic.

BG, you never let me down.

[archibaldcrane]

Ok so the accused, when asked to respond to the rape allegations

If most rape investigations got to this point we'd be in much better shape than we are right now.

And the arguments about lacking physical evidence are facile when shit like this is still occurring:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...rape-kits.html

[Salodin]

Justice is supposed to be impartial. I can scrutinize with out minimizing a victim's experience. I can question while being empathetic. Determining the truth behind a crime should not be put on hold because a victim is uncomfortable with the line of questioning. If you have nothing more to offer an investigator other then "He did this", then you better be ready to be questioned extensively because that's how law needs to work. By the very nature of the crime there is little more to go on than interviews and questionings, and if you think it's ok to prosecute some one on nothing more than word of mouth, then lol@u.

That's not to say it's ok to blame the victim, but that's comparing apples to oranges which I think you're doing. I think it's cute how you keep dodging the points we make in order to make snide remarks about denying victims their experience, as if were trying to attack victims and blame them for wearing such cute skirts.

[Xno Kappa]

If most rape investigations got to this point we'd be in much better shape than we are right now.

And the arguments about lacking physical evidence are facile when shit like this is still occurring:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...rape-kits.html

If it's solely an issue of consent most labs won't bother testing a SAFE kit. It won't prove or disprove anything.

[Jefe]

You getting raped (or gangbanged?), fat-chocobo.

[Andalusian girls]

Justice is supposed to be impartial. I can scrutinize with out minimizing a victim's experience. I can question while being empathetic. Determining the truth behind a crime should not be put on hold because a victim is uncomfortable with the line of questioning. If you have nothing more to offer an investigator other then "He did this", then you better be ready to be questioned extensively because that's how law needs to work. By the very nature of the crime there is little more to go on than interviews and questionings, and if you think it's ok to prosecute some one on nothing more than word of mouth, then lol@u.

That's not to say it's ok to blame the victim, but that's comparing apples to oranges which I think you're doing. I think it's cute how you keep dodging the points we make in order to make snide remarks about denying victims their experience, as if were trying to attack victims and blame them for wearing such cute skirts.

why are you speaking like only women are rape victims

the CDC report is rightly criticized for broadening the definition of sexual violence to absurdity in their conclusions, but if the raw data behind the penetrated / made to penetrate categories are even remotely accurate it shows that while female rapes are underreported by something like 50-60% male rapes are significantly more so, by something like 80-90%. with this degree of distortion it is impossible to tell what proportion of sexual assault victims is composed of males but it is clearly not the 1 in 7 or 1 in 8 figure bandied about by many, but probably closer to a 1 in 4 or 1 in 3 figure. it will not be accurately known until the social stigma surrounding male victims (often even higher than that surrounding female victims) is broken down.

in regards to the issue under discussion both sides are properly represented in you, among others, noting that the nature of sexual assault does not preclude the thorough and skeptical exploration of a claim that forms the basis of all investigative work (especially given the paucity of physical evidence in most cases), and archi is correct in noting the unusually traumatic impact rape has on the victims vis-a-vis most other crimes, but these types of discussions would be better served if all involved could get away from framing the debate as a men vs women issue when it is a rapists vs non-rapists issue, and concomitantly an evaluation of an often broken justice system issue.

[archibaldcrane]

The only reason I didn't bring up male victims is because this is the feminism thread, not the rape thread.

But yes, if you talk about male victims experiences being denied, most of the people in here would leap to agree.

[Andalusian girls]

i am a feminist and i've always considered men's liberation an intrinsic part of the iedology. gender inequality won't be resolved with half an equation.

[archibaldcrane]

If it was a tweet, I'd favorite it.

[Teryu]

I thought the argument was about rape being worse than being murdered.

[Andalusian girls]

then you should work on your reading comprehension. aks said that two pages ago then said she wouldn't be able to defend her claim until she got back from a vacation, the conversation has moved on

[Penthesilea]

If I could get a little clarity on this that'd be great. I've never known anyone that has been raped, or at least told me so, so I'm not familiar with the process of victims of rape are interacted with when they report their accusers.

I know someone who was raped and I don't think it's had a HUGE impact on her at this point (except when her rapist attempts to contact her, which is rare). That said I know she didn't report it because she felt she wouldn't be believed since they had previously dated or it was known she was interested in him.

[BerenTebogo]

I know someone who was raped and I don't think it's had a HUGE impact on her at this point except when her rapist attempts to contact her, which is rare). That said I know she didn't report it because she felt she wouldn't be believed since they had previously dated or it was known she was interested in him.

O ok.

[Salodin]

I thought the argument was about rape being worse than being murdered.

Correct. No one was even discussing male vs female rape.

then you should work on your reading comprehension. aks said that two pages ago then said she wouldn't be able to defend her claim until she got back from a vacation, the conversation has moved on

Archi chimed in too, and people responded. Every one was only commenting on the rape being worse than murder/people scrutinizing a person's claim when they declare they were raped.

No one was making a comment on rape frequency between both sexes, even though we use the word female when we were talking about rape. Sorry if we confused you with that, and I'll make an effort to avoid the confusion in the future.

[archibaldcrane]

My chiming in on the rape vs. murder argument was that it is ridiculous to argue rape is worse than murder...so...

[Charismatic]

My chiming in on the rape vs. murder argument was that it is ridiculous to argue rape is worse than murder...so...

Yeah, can't really give archi shit for that one.
I was surprised he didn't go right off the deep end with Aks but he kept the crazy on the inside for once.

[Andalusian girls]

Correct. No one was even discussing male vs female rape.

Archi chimed in too, and people responded. Every one was only commenting on the rape being worse than murder/people scrutinizing a person's claim when they declare they were raped.

No one was making a comment on rape frequency between both sexes, even though we use the word female when we were talking about rape. Sorry if we confused you with that, and I'll make an effort to avoid the confusion in the future.

you'd have to try significantly harder to confuse me

my post you didn't quote included the phrase 'in regards to the issue under discussion' which then talked about the specific issue under discussion. however the larger point of illustration was the tendency of this thread (and this forum, and this internet, and tumblr, sweet sweet tumblr) to fall into in-group/out-group language formatted as man/woman and how such is inaccurate and harmful, particularly in discussions regarding sexual violence which demonstrably is not monopolized by one gender.

[Marootsoobutsu]

I've never reported a rape to police. I wouldn't be surprised if no one in this thread has.

I have. I was repeatedly asked, in varying ways, if I "actually understood" what I was accusing my teacher of. I was asked in a barrage of ways by police (parents present), my principal (parents not present), and doctors (parents sometimes present). I was 9; he was a "teacher of the year". Guess how it went.

We are required to listen to what people who have done so say about the experience if we wish to have any idea what it is like.

Not fun.

I understand that listening to the experiences of female rape victims (or women in general) is extremely unpopular in this thread, but I have no hope of changing that.

Still not changed, I guess. Is there a reason to specifically say "female rape victims" instead of "rape victims" here? While I admit, I cannot know the trauma a woman goes through, frankly, a woman can't know the trauma another woman goes through, either.

I have reported my apartment being robbed and my car being broken into / stolen to the police. I wasn't treated like shit in those circumstances, so that's the extent of personal experience I can bring to this topic.

I've lived in some crappy parts of town, and had my car broken into multiple times. I've been treated both well, and suspiciously, and indifferently. In none of those situations was it as bad as being questioned about being raped.

I believe that on average rape victims are more questioned/accused of doing something wrong in the process of reporting a rape to police than the average victim of most other crimes, and that it is worse to do so because of the relative trauma involved. That's my argument.

I have absolutely zero problem with this perception, and suspect it is probably true. If an 9 year old boy is treated like either he wanted it or did something to encourage it, or is treated like doesn't really know what happened, I can imagine that adults (male or female) would be treated similarly. I mean, the stigma on guys is very much "He obviously wanted it; he's male" if it's s female rapist. Or, "LOL! YOU GOT RAPED!" if he's a prisoner. Or quite potentially worse. Women are obviously asked if "they encouraged it" (though that kind of question is being removed from the police, and more asked by defense attorneys).

I entirely understand why someone wouldn't report rape. Unless I had some kind of physical or video evidence, I wouldn't ever go through that process again. I do not say this hyperbolisticly: the experience afterward was as traumatic emotionally and mentally than the experience itself. And it didn't help that my rapist moved on to a different county with a nice, cushy job for another 10 years before he retired. That's not unique to rape; it's fairly typical (I understand) with drawn out legal issues with traumatic cases.



This is probably more than I really want to share, but there it is.

[Stumblingdrunk]

Thanks for sharing, and I'm really sorry that you were put through that.

[archibaldcrane]

I only singled out women for two reasons - this is the feminism thread, and I've seen multiple posters in here who are consistently critical / dismissive of female rape victims suddenly get especially concerned about the topic when it comes to male victims.

I agree that men have similar and in many ways worse battles to fight when it comes to being believed, sympathized with, and protected by the system.

And then with children there's a whole other slew of issues.