Feminist Philosophy

[FNH]

How many kids grew up playing super hero games and then tried to jump off a roof thinking they could fly?

Take a more realistic approach on that. How many kids grew up playing super hero games and took on the behavior of protecting the innocent/weak, or great power comes great responsibility, or that just because someone is different doesn't mean you should fear them? It doesn't have to be a literal take on something but could be the underlying message.

[Koul]

"The myth about women in science"

[Aksannyi]

That's good news. Now, we need to break down some of the cultural biases that prevent women from wanting to get into those fields in the first place. The "that's for boys" mentality, essentially. It's better than it was, though.

[Byrthnoth]

The only other male neuroscience graduate student on my floor left for a different floor q.q;

Now it's just me and 8 female grad students. There are two male post doctoral fellow on the floor (and 5 female), but one is leaving in April. Fortunately I didn't think about any of this until I read this thread because the gender ratio in my program really doesn't affect my QoL at all.

[Blubbartron]

That's good news. Now, we need to break down some of the cultural biases that prevent women from wanting to get into those fields in the first place. The "that's for boys" mentality, essentially. It's better than it was, though.

All the scientific evidence points towards women having a natural preference towards person-based work as opposed to thing-based (STEM-related) work. This has been covered ad nauseam.

[Aksannyi]

Natural? Or conditioned?

I remember being discouraged from getting my hands dirty and exploring things the way my brothers were encouraged to. Anecdotal, yes, but let's not try to pretend like perceived gender roles aren't a thing. In many of my education classes, we spoke about the old bias against girls in math and science. It's been proven false, but the stigma still remains. As I said, it is changing, albeit slowly. But there was a long period of time when girls were not actively encouraged to be good at STEM.

[Marootsoobutsu]

Aks, I'm curious. In your heart of hearts, do you believe there are some things-- occupations or occupational-type gifts-- that women are just biologically/evolutionarily more suited toward than men? If so, do you think they are mentally/emotionally more suited for them than men, or other-bodily more suited toward them than men?

[Blubbartron]

Natural? Or conditioned?

I remember being discouraged from getting my hands dirty and exploring things the way my brothers were encouraged to. Anecdotal, yes, but let's not try to pretend like perceived gender roles aren't a thing. In many of my education classes, we spoke about the old bias against girls in math and science. It's been proven false, but the stigma still remains. As I said, it is changing, albeit slowly. But there was a long period of time when girls were not actively encouraged to be good at STEM.

Natural. That study was done with 1 day old infants. The research suggests that the presence of testosterone in the womb is the determining factor (which is obviously strongly correlated with baby sex, but not 100% deterministic). I probably shouldn't have said "work" specifically when it was simply a test of generic preferences, but it seems obvious that if you have a preference for something in general, you'd tend to want to do that for work as well, unless other motivating factors come into play (like earning more money).

[Darus Grey]

That's good news. Now, we need to break down some of the cultural biases that prevent women from wanting to get into those fields in the first place. The "that's for boys" mentality, essentially. It's better than it was, though.

You do realize the article highlights discrimination against men right? Good news indeed.

[thetruepandagod]

we spoke about the old bias against girls in math and science. It's been proven false

b...but... that's wrong.

You do realize the article highlights discrimination against men right? Good news indeed.

I don't think she actually read it.

[Spicyryan]

You do realize the article highlights discrimination against men right? Good news indeed.

Any movement that is pro anything ends up garnering a bunch of idiots against something. Too bad the idiots ended up being the ones trying to "gain respect".

[Aksannyi]

You realize that the article is essentially talking about Affirmative Action at work, yes? It's good to finally see women getting a damn chance. Why do women have a better chance of being hired? Because there are less of them looking for jobs in the field. It's good to see companies actually wanting women instead of "well, women can't do this job so no, we're not even going to consider them."

And yes, I did read the article. I'm sorry, but I don't really feel bad for men when they tell me that they may have to actually compete against women in a field that was, for a long time, completely dominated by men. There is room for both men and women in STEM.

[Darus Grey]

You realize that the article is essentially talking about Affirmative Action at work, yes? It's good to finally see women getting a damn chance. Why do women have a better chance of being hired? Because there are less of them looking for jobs in the field. It's good to see companies actually wanting women instead of "well, women can't do this job so no, we're not even going to consider them."

And yes, I did read the article. I'm sorry, but I don't really feel bad for men when they tell me that they may have to actually compete against women in a field that was, for a long time, completely dominated by men. There is room for both men and women in STEM.

You realize the way this study was conducted, people participating were given equal amounts of both male and female applicants right? Which discredits everything you said. Such a hilarious double standard you have.

At least your last paragraph was honest, it doesn't bother you one bit because it benefits you. It's ok to admit that.

[Blubbartron]

You realize that the article is essentially talking about Affirmative Action at work, yes? It's good to finally see women getting a damn chance. Why do women have a better chance of being hired? Because there are less of them looking for jobs in the field. It's good to see companies actually wanting women instead of "well, women can't do this job so no, we're not even going to consider them."

And yes, I did read the article. I'm sorry, but I don't really feel bad for men when they tell me that they may have to actually compete against women in a field that was, for a long time, completely dominated by men. There is room for both men and women in STEM.

It's not a competition when women are getting hired over better candidates purely because they're women.

Also, only feminists behave as if fields of employment are boys' clubs. Most people go to work to get their shit done and go home, and don't give a flying fuck about who's in the cubicle next to them (so long as they aren't irritating). It seems to me that this train of thought is something that exists purely in the realm of academia (women's studies courses/degrees, primarily), as I've never seen someone in a corporate setting that thinks the same. I say this coming from being on a team of software developers that was absolutely dominated by women.

[archibaldcrane]

Also, only feminists behave as if fields of employment are boys' clubs. Most people go to work to get their shit done and go home, and don't give a flying fuck about who's in the cubicle next to them (so long as they aren't irritating).

As the husband to a wife who works with mostly 50+ year old men in construction, I'll let you know that you're wrong.

[thetruepandagod]

Thanks for the anecdote. I have several of my own, would you be interested?

[Tyrath]

I think a lot of anti-feminist people make the assumption that because they don't consciously behave in sexist ways must mean that nobody else does.

[Blubbartron]

As the husband to a wife who works with mostly 50+ year old men in construction, I'll let you know that you're wrong.

I'd be willing to believe that about construction workers, but we're specifically talking about STEM here.

[archibaldcrane]

I'd be willing to believe that about construction workers, but we're specifically talking about STEM here.

K, just saw "fields of employment" and thought you were being overly broad.

Well, and she's a "project engineer" - while it doesn't take an engineering degree, it's not far from STEM.

[Spicyryan]

And yes, I did read the article. I'm sorry, but I don't really feel bad for men when they tell me that they may have to actually compete against women in a field that was, for a long time, completely dominated by men. There is room for both men and women in STEM.

Men as an entity gathered together and decided in their manference to tell you what is what on competition.

When are we going to start complaining that teachers, nurses, social workers, etc are dominated by women?

Every woman suddenly woke up one morning and gave birth to the idea that 'it is unfair that men dominate the xxx (construction industry etc.) and not women', right?

Speaking of XXX, why is it a field dominated by women who also get paid more than men for the same job?