Men v Women : Sexodus

[Senji]

If someone turns off Mythbusters, do you still go through with the rest of the evening? If they touch your car stereo, do you drop them off at their place and go do something else? Probably not, you probably go through the motions and just write the night off as a loss.

What happens when you do that for weeks in a row? Months? Years? What happens when every time you go out with someone, you just wind up thinking "Man, I could have been doing that other thing I want to do instead?" Again, social ability isn't necessarily what's on discussion here, it's people going "Hm, Friday night. I could finish up building that model or I could go attempt to meet a stranger. Fuck it, Mythbusters is on." It's known quantity versus unknown quantity. I will derive X units of enjoyment if I stay in and play through my Steam Backlog. I will derive between potentially-negative-Y to Z amounts if I go meet up with a stranger." It's not surprising people will take the guaranteed deal.

Just look at the modern popularity of camping that lottery HNM for the 1% drop vs grinding trash for the reputation credits.

[Lyall]

Just look at the modern popularity of camping that lottery HNM for the 1% drop vs grinding trash for the reputation credits.

No lie, I nearly referenced camping NMs in my post but decided to go with something a bit less MMO-centric. It also doesn't really make for a similar comparison for the reasons you stated: Camping something for a low drop (panties, in this case) doesn't show the same guaranteed return on your investment of time that grinding rep does.

[Senji]

No lie, I nearly referenced camping NMs in my post but decided to go with something a bit less MMO-centric. It also doesn't really make for a similar comparison for the reasons you stated: Camping something for a low drop (panties, in this case) doesn't show the same guaranteed return on your investment of time that grinding rep does.

It was obvious, had to include it.

Except it seems as that that's what people are getting stuck on; its not the panty dropping, its building and investing in that relationship when the culture is that the same effort isn't reciprocated. Swimming in hookups, but keep some random chick around for a couple weeks, pose her with some hard decision or whatever to signify rl, and chances are that twenty something will bail.

[Pirian]

No worries, I wont get offended if you do go ad hominem lol. Cool study, I'll read the entire thing later today.

I understand how you got to the conclusion I meant wealth when I quoted a billionaire.. but I don't mean wealth at all.

Just value

While my comments could have been extended to more, they were intended to be localized to you taking advice from a billionaire about whom is deserving in the world.

If a guy is not fun, confident, makes the girl feel emotionally safe, etc etc, then why would she have sex with him, let alone want a relationship with him?

Because that is the goal for him - sex. /s

My point's always been that more and more often guys are disconnecting themselves from reality and are unable to connect to another human being as well as even the stereotypical-dumbass-jock. "Coincidentally" that guy gets laid more than the arm-chair@life guys who swear women off

My point is that it doesn't need to be about him. Whether purposefully or not, you're focusing so much upon what he is doing right; what he is doing wrong. So much of your focus is based upon the outlook that she is a reward for him.

Now that we're off money/wealth... are YOU serious? In my world the team that wins the basketball game practiced harder/smarter than the other team. In your world, does a guy selected at random win mr. olympia, or the guy who more readily deserves it? Does the guy with the masters degree get the job or the guy who dropped out of high school? A healthy/fun sex life is just like a good body or big bank account - deserve it. Do things that make you deserve it.

Life is ONLY about what you earn/deserve. I try pretty hard to listen to the other side of things, but "life isn't about what you deserve".. is crazy, no?

If life is about what you deserve then tell that to the kids starving in Africa. Hell, tell that to the adults starving in Africa. Tell the 15-year-old girl with an IQ of 148 that spent the following 5 years of her life trying to study while fighting ovarian cancer, but because of her health she had to drop out multiple times and now is saddled with both medical and school debt and must work as a waiter to service that debt, that she somehow deserves it. Tell the 14-year-old that has been raised by health-conscious parents, that has trained and become the star quarterback at his high school, but just found out he has an inoperable brain tumor that he deserves it (both people I happen to know/knew).

I guess since I could be making that shit up, to use a person that everybody knows - does Usain Bolt deserve to be the undisputed, absolute fasted man in the world? Surely he has trained an awful lot, but so has everyone at that level, and yet he is still faster thanks to genetics.

Life is not about what is fair or what is unfair. It is not about what you deserve or don't deserve. Practicing harder/smarter than the other team does not always mean you are going to beat them. The guy with the masters degree does not always get the job over the guy that dropped out of high school.

At this point you and I can only discuss whether the men swearing off women are actually great guys and society is crumbling (ala the mice experiments from 1960 from earlier on in the thread) or more and more people are living sedentary lifestyles

Well, if you insist.

[Grey Jorildyn]

Japan is gonna unfuck themselves into extinction. Got it!

[Charismatic]

Japan is gonna unfuck themselves into extinction. Got it!

While the same trends rise around the world, yes.

[zoobernut]

Don't we have a human population being too large issue? I don't see a problem with this, aside from potential emotional issues tied to this sexodus movement. It seems overall like a good thing to help curb exponential growth of the human population.

[Charismatic]

Don't we have a human population being too large issue? I don't see a problem with this, aside from potential emotional issues tied to this sexodus movement. It seems overall like a good thing to help curb exponential growth of the human population.

Only if you believe, without any basis, that this will magically turn itself around eventually.

[Cream Soda]

Only if you believe, without any basis, that this will magically turn itself around eventually.

As long as the issue doesn't occur during any of our lifetimes, who cares?

[hey]

My point is that it doesn't need to be about him. Whether purposefully or not, you're focusing so much upon what he doing right; what he doing wrong. So much of your focus is based upon the outlook that she is a reward for him.

Yeahh... this idea that women are some kind of prize for men to win by being more "deserving" is quite disgusting.

[zoobernut]

Only if you believe, without any basis, that this will magically turn itself around eventually.

Or if you believe that this will effect 100% of males. If it doesn't effect 100% of males then it doesn't need to turn itself around.

[Charismatic]

Or if you believe that this will effect 100% of males. If it doesn't effect 100% of males then it doesn't need to turn itself around.

That is patently false because it doesn't affect only males nor is it a constant. Its a worsening trend.
Again, while it happened first and is worse in Japan... its getting worse all around the world and Japan is trending toward a population loss of around 20% in a single generation's time with no signs of anything improving.

If you don't think that'd have dire consequences on society and the economy (the world economy bee tee dubs) then I'd have to say you're giving the situation no thought.

This is, in every sense of the word... a bad thing.

[Kuya]

If you think this is a problem, what do you suggest we do about it?

[hey]

That is patently false because it doesn't affect only males nor is it a constant. Its a worsening trend.
Again, while it happened first and is worse in Japan... its getting worse all around the world and Japan is trending toward a population loss of around 20% in a single generation's time with no signs of anything improving.

If you don't think that'd have dire consequences on society and the economy (the world economy bee tee dubs) then I'd have to say you're giving the situation no thought.

This is, in every sense of the word... a bad thing.

Japan is different because it is so much more severe there. Otherwise, we need to slow our growth down sooner or later anyway, or we will face even worse consequences down the road.

[Charismatic]

If you think this is a problem, what do you suggest we do about it?

You're asking the wrong person.
Not my field of expertise... just something I've done a lot of reading on.

[zoobernut]

That is patently false because it doesn't affect only males nor is it a constant. Its a worsening trend.
Again, while it happened first and is worse in Japan... its getting worse all around the world and Japan is trending toward a population loss of around 20% in a single generation's time with no signs of anything improving.

If you don't think that'd have dire consequences on society and the economy (the world economy bee tee dubs) then I'd have to say you're giving the situation no thought.

This is, in every sense of the word... a bad thing.

I think you are underestimating how large the human population is or overestimating how much of an issue this is, we have 7.125 billion people. It will take a LONG time for this to become an issue and it would only be an issue for the human species if it effected a very large percentage of the population. Until then it is just an issue regarding the mental health of a few relatively small group of individuals.

A population reduction of 20% is a good thing for the health of the world. We are going through a fundamental change in our economies as well as how we function on a day to day basis it isn't healthy to expect our economies as well as our populations to continue infinite growth.

Yes it will have consequences on society and the economy but I think those are things that we will have to tackle and figure out rather than figuring out a way to keep the exponential growth of the human population. You are trying to fix the wrong problem.

[Charismatic]

A population reduction of 20% is a good thing for the health of the world

You keep talking like you assume it would just stop right there... which is a cue for me to stop right here.

[zoobernut]

You keep talking like you assume it would just stop right there... which is a cue for me to stop right here.

How far do you think it would have to go in order to be a collapse of population? How many people would have to continue breeding for the human population to persist? Please tell me because even if 1 billion people were effected by this we would still have several billion breeding and that is more than enough to sustain the human population. I never assumed it would stop there at all I never said that stop putting words in my mouth.

When do you think this would become a problem? 50% 60% 70% 90%? I think that this issue would be self correcting. It would reach a critical point where it would start to swing back the other direction again.

You can't just run around waving your arms in the air saying that this is a big problem without quantifying it. How big of a problem? When will it become a problem? It isn't a problem yet. What is the problem specifically? I think that if we want to really get down to it the people deciding to not breed and have families is not the problem we should focus on. We should focus on a way to navigate a population reduction while maintaining our societies and world economies.

[Thunder]

While my comments could have been extended to more, they were intended to be localized to you taking advice from a billionaire about whom is deserving in the world.

I could have quoted basketball coaches, charity owners, evolutionary biologists, or even someone like stone cold steve austin lol. It isn't just the billiionaire/millionaires that are successful and talk about "struggle/competition = life"

Because that is the goal for him - sex. /s

sex is pretty abysmal with awkward people. And it's easy for a girl to be selective in sexual partners

My point is that it doesn't need to be about him. Whether purposefully or not, you're focusing so much upon what he is doing right; what he is doing wrong. So much of your focus is based upon the outlook that she is a reward for him.

If this was a thread that was about women complaining that men are doing things wrong I'd be just as critical of them. Sex/relationships IS a reward/on-a-pedestal for dudes too awkward to ever learn how to socialize effectively. It doesn't need to be.. in fact, I'm saying guys would be better off if they got OVER it by means of actually overcoming their shortcomings, rather than just giving up.

I also should be clear, I think it's perfectly OK if someone wants to swear off sex and just be abstinent

If life is about what you deserve then tell that to the kids starving in Africa. Hell, tell that to the adults starving in Africa. Tell the 15-year-old girl with an IQ of 148 that spent the following 5 years of her life trying to study while fighting ovarian cancer, but because of her health she had to drop out multiple times and now is saddled with both medical and school debt and must work as a waiter to service that debt, that she somehow deserves it. Tell the 14-year-old that has been raised by health-conscious parents, that has trained and become the star quarterback at his high school, but just found out he has an inoperable brain tumor that he deserves it (both people I happen to know/knew).

I guess since I could be making that shit up, to use a person that everybody knows - does Usain Bolt deserve to be the undisputed, absolute fasted man in the world? Surely he has trained an awful lot, but so has everyone at that level, and yet he is still faster thanks to genetics.

Life is not about what is fair or what is unfair. It is not about what you deserve or don't deserve. Practicing harder/smarter than the other team does not always mean you are going to beat them. The guy with the masters degree does not always get the job over the guy that dropped out of high school.

Sorry to hear you had people deal with unfortunate turns in their life so close to you. Genuinely.

But are you trying to say that the guys who feel disenfranchised by women are somehow as unlucky as those who get diagnosed with cancer/etc at young ages?

And I get your points about Bolt and others. Like coach Wooden said, "God only made one Kareem Abdul Jabbar one Mother Theresa and one Mel Gibson. The rest of us didn't receive as much potential, but each of us can still become successful". All I'm saying is guys who feel they're helpless can still amount to be worthy of great friends, good job, great girlfriends, etc. I do not endorse, at all, a defeatist attitude where people should throw their hands up in the air and just be content with what they've been "dealt" and passively swallow every ounce of shit thrown their way. The world is pretty unfair, but it isn't that bad if you're privileged enough to live in the US/EU/AUS/etc

Yeahh... this idea that women are some kind of prize for men to win by being more "deserving" is quite disgusting.

Most people have standards and if a guy is decently socially awkward then yeah, sex is a prize for them. Know where putting women on pedestals came from? These guys! because women literally are on pedestals to them

Are you saying that these guys who feel slighted by women are just fucked (pun) and should accept it? There's nothing left to do but deal with the fact that they are sexually frustrated and that's how it HAS to be? OR, could they work on themselves so that they're not so awkward and "deserve" some better friends/relationships?

Or are women fucking society up because they're becoming more slutty like the OP implies?

[arus2001]

Welp, apparently I'm an herbivore. Though I can at least say I haven't sworn off women. I just have no interest in "the game" as it were.