Men v Women : Sexodus

[hey]

Most people have standards and if a guy is decently socially awkward then yeah, sex is a prize for them. Know where putting women on pedestals came from? These guys! because women literally are on pedestals to them

Are you saying that these guys who feel slighted by women are just fucked (pun) and should accept it? There's nothing left to do but deal with the fact that they are sexually frustrated and that's how it HAS to be? OR, could they work on themselves so that they're not so awkward and "deserve" some better friends/relationships?

Or are women fucking society up because they're becoming more slutty like the OP implies?

No, i am saying they should stop treating women like some object to be won. Women do not enter into relationships solely for the benefit of men. Maybe if they figured that out, and treated them like actual people, women would actually want to be in a relationship with them.

[Lucavi]

While the same trends rise around the world, yes.

Again, kudos to the planet. Less resource use. My only personal downside is the economic ramifications of a country that owes us so much money not being able to pay it back (especially when we need -it- to be able to pay back -our- debts) as well as the economic ramifications of one of our staunchest trading partners and allies going belly up, forcing us to rely on other, less-trusted nations.

But less betas having children? Sure. Fine. Whatever.

[Thunder]

No, i am saying they should stop treating women like some object to be won. Women do not enter into relationships solely for the benefit of men. Maybe if they figured that out, and treated them like actual people, women would actually want to be in a relationship with them.

Right... so aren't I saying the same thing except saying it from the point of the guy and not the woman? As in.. the woman would then want to be in a relationship with the guy = the guy would then deserve a relationship with the woman

So it's just semantic differences? Aside from the fact that I think the way a guy treats himself is as important as he treats women in the realm of relationships

[Charismatic]

My only personal downside is the economic ramifications of a country that owes us so much money not being able to pay it back (especially when we need -it- to be able to pay back -our- debts) as well as the economic ramifications of one of our staunchest trading partners and allies going belly up, forcing us to rely on other, less-trusted nations.

Right.
There's going to be a lot of things negatively impacted by this. That's only one angle. If it was just, hey... less people are having babies and that's fine because everything is going to be all hunky dory it would be nothing to write home about. Unfortunately, that's not the case.

[hey]

Right... so aren't I saying the same thing except saying it from the point of the guy and not the woman? As in.. the woman would then want to be in a relationship with the guy = the guy would then deserve a relationship with the woman

So it's just semantic differences? Aside from the fact that I think the way a guy treats himself is as important as he treats women in the realm of relationships

Anyone who only sees the benefits to themselves and ignores the other person is a leech and deserves to be alone. No one owes you anything, and to expect otherwise is insane. A woman is not an object that you buy and then use for your own enjoyment. To think that way shows that you do not respect them, and again, deserve to be alone. Both people must make an effort to make the other happy.

[Salodin]

No, i am saying they should stop treating women like some object to be won. Women do not enter into relationships solely for the benefit of men.

These things are not mutually exclusive. A man can fawn over a woman and try to get her because of how attractive she is (attractive meaning many things), just like a woman can pick and choose men based on how attractive a partner they are (again, attractive meaning many things and not just sexyness). That is how it's always been, with women doing it just as much as men. There's absolutely nothing wrong with this.

Countries like japan have a problem where men just don't have the motivation to participate in society as far as looking for and picking a mate come into play. Women are just too much a hassle, and when masturbating feels p.good why bother with the other sex? You know how much money you save by switching to Geico? Quadruple it. That's how much money you save by not wining and dining a woman. Maybe you've been out of the game too long to remember this.

A partner offers more then just sex and money, but they also get these things from their MMOs, hentai waifu, and forums.

[zoobernut]

Right.
There's going to be a lot of things negatively impacted by this. That's only one angle. If it was just, hey... less people are having babies and that's fine because everything is going to be all hunky dory it would be nothing to write home about. Unfortunately, that's not the case.

Don't you think the potentially extremely large benefits from having less people in the world as well as the fact that over population is an extremely difficult issue to tackle deems that we find a way to fix the negative impacts of this rather than the issue of people not breeding? I would rather find a different economic model to help countries like Japan through this issue than find ways to increase breeding in Japan.

[hey]

These things are not mutually exclusive.

Correct.

A man can fawn over a woman and try to get her because of how attractive she is (attractive meaning many things), just like a woman can pick and choose men based on how attractive a partner they are (again, attractive meaning many things and not just sexyness). That is how it's always been, with women doing it just as much as men. There's absolutely nothing wrong with this.

Yes, nothing wrong with that.

Countries like japan have a problem where men just don't have the motivation to participate in society as far as looking for and picking a mate come into play. Women are just too much a hassle, and when masturbating feels p.good why bother with the other sex? You know how much money you save by switching to Geico? Quadruple it. That's how much money you save by not wining and dining a woman. Maybe you've been out of the game too long to remember this.

A partner offers more then just sex and money, but they also get these things from their MMOs, hentai waifu, and forums.

If there is no benefit to them, then of course they do not do it. Why should they? Why would anyone enter a relationship that did not benefit them? That would not make any sense at all. You must remember though, that it is the same for women. There are costs, both financial and otherwise, for both parties. You must make it worthwhile for the other person, and hopefully they will do the same.

[Salodin]

Ok, so take all that and add to it the culture of Japan (as some one in the thread did earlier) and you don't see why there's a problem there? I'm sure the highly educated/well off men and women in Japan are doing fine with no complaints; it's the rest of the people that have problems with the system and choose to delay entering it or avoid it completely. Men don't like or trust women, and women don't want a neckbeard for a boyfriend.

[Pirian]

I could have quoted basketball coaches, charity owners, evolutionary biologists, or even someone like stone cold steve austin lol. It isn't just the billiionaire/millionaires that are successful and talk about "struggle/competition = life"

I actually specifically made note of this in my original post because I anticipated this very statement.

The abstract doesn't cover this, but I feel it is worth noting that it is not necessarily that the individual is actually wealthy that brings on this display of behavior, because if an individual perceives themselves to be wealthy then it will also lead to the same behavioral outcomes. Furthermore, the majority of the time, these individuals (whether actually wealthy or just perceiving wealth) take absolutely no happenstance in their position regardless of how they achieved it, and perceive themselves as deserving of their place.

I was going to bold the important parts, but really this entire paragraph says what I want to say. People often vastly overestimate their own importance in their "struggle". That isn't to discount their experience, it's just a human characteristic that once you know exists, you can watch out for.

sex is pretty abysmal with awkward people. And it's easy for a girl to be selective in sexual partners
If this was a thread that was about women complaining that men are doing things wrong I'd be just as critical of them. Sex/relationships IS a reward/on-a-pedestal for dudes too awkward to ever learn how to socialize effectively. It doesn't need to be.. in fact, I'm saying guys would be better off if they got OVER it by means of actually overcoming their shortcomings, rather than just giving up.



I also should be clear, I think it's perfectly OK if someone wants to swear off sex and just be abstinent
Sorry to hear you had people deal with unfortunate turns in their life so close to you. Genuinely.

But are you trying to say that the guys who feel disenfranchised by women are somehow as unlucky as those who get diagnosed with cancer/etc at young ages?

I'm trying to say that people don't get what they deserve; they get what they get. That is the only point I am trying to make. You can work a hard and honestly all your life for 30 years, get laid off, and then have some someone say that you deserve what you get for not working harder to better yourself. You can also drop out of high school and become a billionaire. Neither is particularly deserved.

And I get your points about Bolt and others. Like coach Wooden said, "God only made one Kareem Abdul Jabbar one Mother Theresa and one Mel Gibson. The rest of us didn't receive as much potential, but each of us can still become successful". All I'm saying is guys who feel they're helpless can still amount to be worthy of great friends, good job, great girlfriends, etc. I do not endorse, at all, a defeatist attitude where people should throw their hands up in the air and just be content with what they've been "dealt" and passively swallow every ounce of shit thrown their way. The world is pretty unfair, but it isn't that bad if you're privileged enough to live in the US/EU/AUS/etc

They can also do all these things and not feel as though they deserve it by some right simply because they think, or someone else thinks they worked hard and put in the time.

Most people have standards and if a guy is decently socially awkward then yeah, sex is a prize for them. Know where putting women on pedestals came from? These guys! because women literally are on pedestals to them

These comments weren't directed at me, but I would just like to add that many people would also consider that objectification and a destructive way of thinking. Also, you have no basis for your claims that these guys that suddenly seem to prefer solitude to relationships are putting women figuratively on pedestals.

[Lucavi]

If there is no benefit to them, then of course they do not do it. Why should they? Why would anyone enter a relationship that did not benefit them? That would not make any sense at all. You must remember though, that it is the same for women. There are costs, both financial and otherwise, for both parties. You must make it worthwhile for the other person, and hopefully they will do the same.

Just a lovely example of how far the 1st world country society has advanced in terms of self-sufficiency and self-pleasure, where you literally no longer need a significant other for anything aside from procreation. No needing them to help fund/furnish/feed/fight for your survival or anything. You can obtain all manner of pleasure and security without the need for one.

Now, you drop a few bombs or release a plague or something that knocks humanity back to 900AD technology-wise and you'd be surprised how quickly these NEETS over in Japan would shape up and find a chick.

Comfort breeds weakness. It is what it is.

[Senji]

Just a lovely example of how far the 1st world country society has advanced in terms of self-sufficiency and self-pleasure, where you literally no longer need a significant other for anything aside from procreation. No needing them to help fund/furnish/feed/fight for your survival or anything. You can obtain all manner of pleasure and security without the need for one.

Now, you drop a few bombs or release a plague or something that knocks humanity back to 900AD technology-wise and you'd be surprised how quickly these NEETS over in Japan would shape up and find a chick.

Comfort breeds weakness. It is what it is.

We all saw this coming.

Spoiler: show

Native Japan is barely even a slice; they could fade away back into isolationism or whatever and it wouldn't matter worldly. WWII vets are laughing from the grave, or cursing "finally". Its really a privileged mental health thing though. There is just a lot of privileged out and about now. The south and other third world countries will insure that humanity will never die from lack of breeding. We just wont have the advancements to stave off the alien invasion.

[Xantavia]

That is patently false because it doesn't affect only males nor is it a constant. Its a worsening trend.
Again, while it happened first and is worse in Japan... its getting worse all around the world and Japan is trending toward a population loss of around 20% in a single generation's time with no signs of anything improving.

If you don't think that'd have dire consequences on society and the economy (the world economy bee tee dubs) then I'd have to say you're giving the situation no thought.

This is, in every sense of the word... a bad thing.

Why should these people care? Obviously they think other people are shit and don't want anything to do with them. They aren't having kids, so no worries about what happens in future.

[Lucavi]

We all saw this coming.

Native Japan is barely even a slice; they could fade away back into isolationism or whatever and it wouldn't matter worldly. WWII vets are laughing from the grave, or cursing "finally". Its really a privileged mental health thing though. There is just a lot of privileged out and about now. The south and other third world countries will insure that humanity will never die from lack of breeding. We just wont have the advancements to stave off the alien invasion.

I agree. Its just a first-world country thing. What's sobering about it is that its almost a little circular in an annoying way. Third world is the closest thing to "barbarism" that exists in the modern day in terms of enlightenment, reason, ect. Yet, the privilege that comes with being a modern-day first-world country partially leads to this "lazy quitter" mentality where people are taking their ball and going home because they don't like the way something is. They're only doing that because they can get away with it. If this were a rural world where you needed kids to both grow your food and protect your home, this wouldn't be a goddamn issue.

You get rejected by one woman, you keep going; keep trying until you find one. You don't roll up into a ball and pout about it while blogging to your friends that its more convenient to beat off to your body pillow for the rest of your life. The good part about that statement, though, is that no woman is missing out on anything with that guy if he's the type to just throw in the towel at the first sign of moderate hardship. I sure as fuck don't want a woman who'd do the same.

[hey]

You get rejected by one woman, you keep going; keep trying until you find one. You don't roll up into a ball and pout about it while blogging to your friends that its more convenient to beat off to your body pillow for the rest of your life. The good part about that statement, though, is that no woman is missing out on anything with that guy if he's the type to just throw in the towel at the first sign of moderate hardship. I sure as fuck don't want a woman who'd do the same.

Well..why not? Why are people obligated to do things they do not like, and do not need to do?

[Xantavia]

Well..why not? Why are people obligated to do things they do not like, and do not need to do?

Because its not "normal", thats why. When I'm not at work, I'm at home watching tv, surfing the internet, or playing video games. I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything. But my brother's wife is always telling me I need to get a life, that there is something abnormal about not wanting to go out and socialize 24/7. Some people just don't understand that not everybody wants the same things out of life they do. And if they don't conform to the same things, something is very wrong with them and they need fixing.

[Meresgi]

Because its not "normal", thats why. When I'm not at work, I'm at home watching tv, surfing the internet, or playing video games. I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything. But my brother's wife is always telling me I need to get a life, that there is something abnormal about not wanting to go out and socialize 24/7. Some people just don't understand that not everybody wants the same things out of life they do. And if they don't conform to the same things, something is very wrong with them and they need fixing.

Hated this growing up. People would chastise me and others for not going out all the time to parties and what not and instead staying home and reading, playing games and having our own fun. Sorry i'm not dropping acid in a bathroom or getting some chick knocked up like 90% of the rest of the highschool!

Also Japanese males can be beta all they want, means more azns for the rest of us. I need me a waifu on the side.

[hey]

Because its not "normal", thats why. When I'm not at work, I'm at home watching tv, surfing the internet, or playing video games. I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything. But my brother's wife is always telling me I need to get a life, that there is something abnormal about not wanting to go out and socialize 24/7. Some people just don't understand that not everybody wants the same things out of life they do. And if they don't conform to the same things, something is very wrong with them and they need fixing.

How dare you not be exactly the same!

[Thunder]

I actually specifically made note of this in my original post because I anticipated this very statement.

I was going to bold the important parts, but really this entire paragraph says what I want to say. People often vastly overestimate their own importance in their "struggle". That isn't to discount their experience, it's just a human characteristic that once you know exists, you can watch out for.

You're trying to correct a human bias we have and you're going way overboard. This is almost like the typical, "you know how they got success? it's either 1) they cheated 2) they were handed it by their parents/others 3) they greedily hurt everyone in their path" That's not true man.. a MAJORITY of these uber successful people are the most humble people on the planet. Jordan/Walton/RayKroc(McDonald's guy) I know in particular blow the rest of us out of the water when it comes to being humble. Idk if you read their books or be willing to hear the stories from me. I love sharing them and I don't often get to talk about this stuff but I'm derailing enough

I'm trying to say that people don't get what they deserve; they get what they get. That is the only point I am trying to make. You can work a hard and honestly all your life for 30 years, get laid off, and then have some someone say that you deserve what you get for not working harder to better yourself. You can also drop out of high school and become a billionaire. Neither is particularly deserved.

Name a billionaire that didn't deserve what they got. Or a #1 pro athlete. Or a #1 actor/entertainer. They put WAY more work into what they do/did than the guy who works "hard and honestly" as a janitor for 30 years never gunning for a promotion/raise/etc. I'm not saying there's something wrong with those people - it's fine, if that's what they wanna do that's what they'll do. I'm not here to say that these people who don't work harder are less of a human being than others. But they should not be complaining they don't have something when they made the decision not to pursue it

I don't get it, are you saying there is no social mobility? Except for the guys who win the lottery of fate? It just "is what it is" and perusing more is futile?

These comments weren't directed at me, but I would just like to add that many people would also consider that objectification and a destructive way of thinking. Also, you have no basis for your claims that these guys that suddenly seem to prefer solitude to relationships are putting women figuratively on pedestals.

Feel free to respond to whatever - I'm here to see different views, don't care who they come from really, lol

You mean objectification -is- a destructive way of thinking? Yeah, I agree, isn't that what I've been saying?

And no, I don't have evidence that all men who prefer solitude are doing that. But I don't think it's such a stretch to say that all men who choose solitude, and complain about HAVING to choose solitude, can't get their shit together, socially

[Cantih]

So you can see the base that Brietbart and Milo are pandering to with these articles and topics.
https://imgur.com/a/FtCHS
I'mma just leave this here.