Men v Women : Sexodus

[Lucavi]

Well..why not? Why are people obligated to do things they do not like, and do not need to do?

There is no "why not". You don't wanna do it, fine! That's good for me! Less people sucking up the air! Good for the planet! Less people sucking up the minerals!

Trust me, I'm no "natural order" of things guy. You wanna beat off forever and never touch a chick? Fine by me! Just don't sell your sperm, either. I want your dick to be off the market in terms of breeding.

[Thunder]

Well..why not? Why are people obligated to do things they do not like, and do not need to do?

They aren't, it's ok to decide something "different" I don't think people are saying EVERYONE needs to "man up", be ambitious, struggle, compete, be the best, rah rah rah!

If you're cool with your situation, that's what you prefer, great. If you're complaining about women... then ^^^

Because its not "normal", thats why. When I'm not at work, I'm at home watching tv, surfing the internet, or playing video games. I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything. But my brother's wife is always telling me I need to get a life, that there is something abnormal about not wanting to go out and socialize 24/7. Some people just don't understand that not everybody wants the same things out of life they do. And if they don't conform to the same things, something is very wrong with them and they need fixing.

I think it's cool you decided for yourself what makes you happy and you're doing it. That's awesome.

I think the comments about manning up and other shit is directed at the guys who are complaining about their situation

Just a lovely example of how far the 1st world country society has advanced in terms of self-sufficiency and self-pleasure, where you literally no longer need a significant other for anything aside from procreation. No needing them to help fund/furnish/feed/fight for your survival or anything. You can obtain all manner of pleasure and security without the need for one.

Now, you drop a few bombs or release a plague or something that knocks humanity back to 900AD technology-wise and you'd be surprised how quickly these NEETS over in Japan would shape up and find a chick.

Comfort breeds weakness. It is what it is.

Hah, totally agree. I think comfort breeds weakness might make it sound like I/you would call anyone not slaying bitches weak but that's just not true. You can still do cool shit and have sworn women off. But if you're doing nothing in your life, then yeah. Comfort bred weakness right into you

[thetruepandagod]

Right.
There's going to be a lot of things negatively impacted by this. That's only one angle. If it was just, hey... less people are having babies and that's fine because everything is going to be all hunky dory it would be nothing to write home about. Unfortunately, that's not the case.

relevant
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...lobal-economy/

• Extremely high numbers of Japanese do not find sex appealing. 45 percent of women and 25 percent of men, ages 16 to 24, are "not interested in or despised sexual contact."

• More than half of Japanese are single. 49 percent of unmarried women and 61 of unmarried men, ages 18 to 34, are not in any kind of romantic relationship.

• In every age group, the percentage of Japanese men and women who are not in a romantic relationship has been increasing steadily since the 1990s.

• About a quarter of Japanese don't want a romantic relationship. 23 percent of women and 27 percent of men say they are not interested in any kind of romantic relationship.

• More than a third of childbearing-age Japanese have never had sex: 39 percent of women and 36 percent of men, ages 18 to 34. That number hasn't actually changed much over the last decade, but it is unusually high.

• The Japanese population institute projects that women in their early 20s have a 25 percent chance of never marrying and a 40 percent chance of never having kids.

So far, this all might look like a big problem for the Japanese economy and for regular Japanese people, but not a story with major implications for those of us in the United States or elsewhere in the global economy. But here's the big problem: Japan is one of the most indebted governments in the world. Right now, Japanese public debt is 200 percent of its GDP – more even than Greece. Japan will be okay as long as it can keep growing but, with its demographic time-bomb, it's hard to see how that's possible in the long term.

[Byrthnoth]

tl;dr of the article:
45% of women and 25% of men are not interested in or despite sexual contact because Japan has a society where women can't have both a family and work life, so some women choose to forsake sex. The number of women choosing this path creates scarcity, and men that don't want to compete for a mate (possibly because they feel inadequate or have low drive) self-select and stop their attempts to mate. The remaining women then complain about "herbivore males," making it seem like the shortage of men is the problem.

In reality the problem is their social norms, which afford much more freedom to a single woman than a married woman.

[Pirian]

You're trying to correct a human bias we have and you're going way overboard. This is almost like the typical, "you know how they got success? it's either 1) they cheated 2) they were handed it by their parents/others 3) they greedily hurt everyone in their path" That's not true man.. a MAJORITY of these uber successful people are the most humble people on the planet. Jordan/Walton/RayKroc(McDonald's guy) I know in particular blow the rest of us out of the water when it comes to being humble. Idk if you read their books or be willing to hear the stories from me. I love sharing them and I don't often get to talk about this stuff but I'm derailing enough

No, you have me all wrong. They had success because they had success. All the things they did that led them to success helped, but it didn't mean they deserved success. It's the sense of entitlement that you're imparting to them by saying "they deserved it" that I so vehemently disagree with .

Name a billionaire that didn't deserve what they got. Or a #1 pro athlete. Or a #1 actor/entertainer. They put WAY more work into what they do/did than the guy who works "hard and honestly" as a janitor for 30 years never gunning for a promotion/raise/etc. I'm not saying there's something wrong with those people - it's fine, if that's what they wanna do that's what they'll do. I'm not here to say that these people who don't work harder are less of a human being than others. But they should not be complaining they don't have something when they made the decision not to pursue it

Well, since you asked:
A billionaire: There are so many that I want to mention in this category. The vast majority of fortunes made at the turn of the 20th century were made in very unsavory terms. To name someone specifically, there is strong evidence the Joe Kennedy started their family fortune importing liquor during prohibition. ALL the Soviet Era/Russian Oligarchs. Since there is currently a thread about them, the Saud family. All the Walton's that are billionaires. Bill Gates stole the ideas that made him wealthy and then proceeded to bury the man he stole them from, and there is good evidence that Mark Zuckerberg did as well. All the billionaire Hedge Fund managers and their manipulation of the financial markets. I could go on, but since this list is so large I will add that Warren Buffet is a great guy, Elon Musk is a great guy, as well Jim Sinegal.

#1 pro athlete: There is compelling evidence that Babe Ruth took steroids, but we don't even need to go back that far, do we?

#1 actor/entertainer: It's funny you ask for this when Bill Cosby is still on the front page of the poopdeck.

I am well read, I simply don't confuse circumstance and happenstance with what they "deserve". For every one of these billionaires that you would say deserved to make it, there are 100 others that put in just as much work, just as much time, more time, more work, that deserved it just as much or more than those that did.

I don't get it, are you saying there is no social mobility? Except for the guys who win the lottery of fate? It just "is what it is" and perusing more is futile?
Feel free to respond to whatever - I'm here to see different views, don't care who they come from really, lol

Not at all. All I am saying is that just because you work hard doesn't mean you are entitled to success. Success happens and doesn't happen, and what you deserve and don't deserve doesn't play into it.

You mean objectification -is- a destructive way of thinking? Yeah, I agree, isn't that what I've been saying?

You'll have to point out where you said you were agreeing to this before this point, because what I've read from you so far seems indicative of the contrary, and I'm not the only one that has pointed this out. I'm not always the most thorough reader, though so I could have missed it.

And no, I don't have evidence that all men who prefer solitude are doing that. But I don't think it's such a stretch to say that all men who choose solitude, and complain about HAVING to choose solitude, can't get their shit together, socially

But...they're not complaining? Sure, a few might be complaining in these articles, but it sounds more like a bunch of single, uninterested guys are living in Japan pretty happily in their little world. Would I want to live like that? No way, but that doesn't mean I think that my way is necessarily better for them than what they have figured out for themselves.

[thetruepandagod]

In reality the problem is their social norms, which afford much more freedom to a single woman than a married woman.

You see the same happening here to a far lesser degree where women talk about foregoing getting married and having kids for the sake of their career and then realize in their mid/late 30's that they don't have much time left to pursue motherhood if at all. On the upside women are having more dogs as pets instead of kids. So the petmarket is probably poised for long term profit!

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...it-all/309020/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/moirafor...t-have-it-all/

[Thunder]

No, you have me all wrong. They had success because they had success. All the things they did that led them to success helped, but it didn't mean they deserved success. It's the sense of entitlement that you're imparting to them by saying "they deserved it" that I so vehemently disagree with .

I am well read, I simply don't confuse circumstance and happenstance with what they "deserve". For every one of these billionaires that you would say deserved to make it, there are 100 others that put in just as much work, just as much time, more time, more work, that deserved it just as much or more than those that did.


Not at all. All I am saying is that just because you work hard doesn't mean you are entitled to success. Success happens and doesn't happen, and what you deserve and don't deserve doesn't play into it.


You'll have to point out where you said you were agreeing to this before this point, because what I've read from you so far seems indicative of the contrary, and I'm not the only one that has pointed this out. I'm not always the most thorough reader, though so I could have missed it.


But...they're not complaining? Sure, a few might be complaining in these articles, but it sounds more like a bunch of single, uninterested guys are living in Japan pretty happily in their little world. Would I want to live like that? No way, but that doesn't mean I think that my way is necessarily better for them than what they have figured out for themselves.

Idk man, I think we should just drop the "deserve" stuff because it's totally off topic now. I'm pretty sure it's because I used the word deserve, too. Phrasing it that way set off alarms that I was putting those who aren't "bettering themselves" down or that some people are less of a human being than others

That isn't what I wanted to put forward at all. I wish all the best to guys who are happy doing other things and swearing off women. I'm not some Machiavellian prince who thinks everyone's got different value attributed to them and that X person is better than Y "because he deserves more". I was targeting the guys (in OP & this thread you can't say there haven't been posts about how "fucked up" women are getting lol) that complain and whine about not getting the relationships they want when there are things someone can do to better position themselves to actually have the relationships they want (although you'd disagree, Pirian?)



I stand by the success stuff, but we'll probably have to agree to disagree. This is like atheist vs theist or republican vs liberal. I could retort to all the names you mentioned and give reasons.. but we just wont get anywhere past you denying working hard has a direct and strong correlation to achievement and me standing by just that. There's thousands of hours of things I've read/listened to that make me think that way, and I bet the same for you - it'd be a long discussion, and I'd totally do it if I was more confident we+audience would actually read through all the source material or not get banned doing that

[Byrthnoth]

You see the same happening here to a far lesser degree where women talk about foregoing getting married and having kids for the sake of their career and then realize in their mid/late 30's that they don't have much time left to pursue motherhood if at all. On the upside women are having more dogs as pets instead of kids. So the petmarket is probably poised for long term profit!

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...it-all/309020/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/moirafor...t-have-it-all/

One of the labs on my floor is run by a husband/wife duo that tried to wait until they had a stable work life to build a family. That's just not possible in academia, and when they finally felt capable it was too late. Now they take on a herd of undergrads and various misfit graduate student/post docs, who they treat like sort of a strange family. They're great people, but it's sad to see them suffer like this.

I mean, trying to rise to become part of the top 0.1% without making any sacrifices is probably just not possible. Constraining your schedule with child care makes it even more unlikely, and I'm not sure it's a solvable problem.

[hey]

Name a billionaire that didn't deserve what they got. Or a #1 pro athlete. Or a #1 actor/entertainer. They put WAY more work into what they do/did than the guy who works "hard and honestly" as a janitor for 30 years never gunning for a promotion/raise/etc.

This is absolute nonsense for a few reasons.

1) Anyone with no possibility of being successful in such things would simply not try. No one spends significant portions of their life doing things they have no chance at. People who are under 5 feet tall do not practice enough to compete in the nba, because it is pointless: no matter how hard they try, they cannot be successful.
2) You will never know about the unsuccessful people. For every one who succeeds there could be 10,000 who try just as hard, but you will never know about any of them. They become that janitor you just dismissed as not working as hard.
3) Lots of other people could have done better if they were born into circumstances that allowed them to.

[Pirian]

Idk man, I think we should just drop the "deserve" stuff because it's totally off topic now. I'm pretty sure it's because I used the word deserve, too. Phrasing it that way set off alarms that I was putting those who aren't "bettering themselves" down or that some people are less of a human being than others

That isn't what I wanted to put forward at all. I wish all the best to guys who are happy doing other things and swearing off women. I'm not some Machiavellian prince who thinks everyone's got different value attributed to them and that X person is better than Y "because he deserves more". I was targeting the guys (in OP & this thread you can't say there haven't been posts about how "fucked up" women are getting lol) that complain and whine about not getting the relationships they want when there are things someone can do to better position themselves to actually have the relationships they want (although you'd disagree, Pirian?)

I wouldn't disagree that there are things they can do to better themselves. Once again, all I am saying is that just because they better themselves doesn't mean they suddenly deserve a relationship.

I stand by the success stuff, but we'll probably have to agree to disagree. This is like atheist vs theist or republican vs liberal. I could retort to all the names you mentioned and give reasons.. but we just wont get anywhere past you denying working hard has a direct and strong correlation to achievement and me standing by just that. There's thousands of hours of things I've read/listened to that make me think that way, and I bet the same for you - it'd be a long discussion, and I'd totally do it if I was more confident we+audience would actually read through all the source material or not get banned doing that

How many times do I have to explicitly say that "working hard" is not what I have a problem with. It is the notion that "working hard" makes them "deserving" of the success they experience. You keep ignoring or skimming over it, but I promise you I've said it. If you need me to quote it then I will, but I thought I was being fairly explicit in my assertion that it isn't "hard work" that I am railing against, but merely the notion that "hard work" leads to them being "deserving" of success.

[thetruepandagod]

Stop being fucking idiots, you are all arguing worthless semantics because someone got offended at the word "deserve"

It is best to love yourself and not being reliant on love from others. And that if you do this you will find a person who accents who you already are. Follow your genuine interests be honest with yourself and a special hoe will one day ride your pole.

[Vandalhart]

With those OK Cupid pictures, I'm curious if the answers to "Is there such a thing as too many sexual partners?" was also something they were directing at themselves.

If someone was celibate for a long time and was looking for a mate, then I can undersand why it would matter to them. If they were just upholding a double standard after they've plowed anything that let them, that's a bit ricidulous.

I'm glad my wife and I have something that works for us. Even if there's rocky times, I couldn't imagine myself having to go through dating again. Though I feel, that if anything, I've gotten more confidence in myself over the last few years. If something were to ever happen, I'm thinking I'dbe fine. At least after I dragged myself out of whatever hole I was in mentally, because something horrible would have to have happened to be out dating again.

[Charismatic]

There is no double standard.

[Charismatic]

Its over guys.
Its over.

This is how it all ends.
Register to see the NSFW content

[Gredival]

With those OK Cupid pictures, I'm curious if the answers to "Is there such a thing as too many sexual partners?" was also something they were directing at themselves.

If someone was celibate for a long time and was looking for a mate, then I can undersand why it would matter to them. If they were just upholding a double standard after they've plowed anything that let them, that's a bit ricidulous.

These are a line of SJW memes meant to illustrate the implicit acceptance of double standards. Sex partners is a big one, but the general theme is simply "Why 'nice guys' aren't really 'nice.'" You have guys saying "Girls can't look past the fact I have a little extra weight" who also want traditionally skinny girls, people who say they are open minded but think homosexual men (but not lesbians) are gross, etc.

[Cream Soda]

^
on the flip side of that, I love it when gay guys try to tell me I'm not open minded because I'm not interested in them

[BerenTebogo]

The dudes who are pushin' size 36-38+ jeans and lookin' for that size 2-4 girl make me fucking roll all over town laughing.

It's p.much my favorite.

[Lucavi]

Hah, totally agree. I think comfort breeds weakness might make it sound like I/you would call anyone not slaying bitches weak but that's just not true. You can still do cool shit and have sworn women off. But if you're doing nothing in your life, then yeah. Comfort bred weakness right into you

Comfort breeds weakness simply means that 1st world societies have so much luxury time on their hands - time that was in earlier times, spending working either to eat or to live - that people can now drum up such problems as "women are too hard to approach, trust and satisfy". One can only seriously make this argument with every other thing that is important to functioning as a living vessel is easily satisfied.

tl;dr: You won't find this shit in some starving 3rd world country. They have more important things to worry about. Like getting enough food to last through the day.

[Koul]

In regards to Japan facing a workforce gap, when I worked at Boeing 6 years ago, this was talked about MANY times in meetings. Pretty much the managers of the plant and high-up people were concerned because the retention rate was low for young people and none of them had any real drive to get higher up in the company. We also had small seminars on explaining to the older generations what that stupid millennial generation crap was. Although, I think it's bullshit. I think it had some good points in explaining the inner workings of that group. My friend who works at Honeywell says she has meetings on the same thing. Not enough new workers to replace the retiring ones.

My Dad for example has worked there for almost 40 years. He had to support my mom (who has medical issues and couldn't really work) along with me and my 2 sisters. Nowadays, that type of thing isn't as popular I would say. Most people my age, 23~34ish, are more concerned with being happy then working. Pretty much my dad and the past generation lived to work and it's changing into what seems to be a work to live typea thing.

I think this sexodus will have an impact on the entire world, tbh. But I also think the world and human society will adjust accordingly. I think eventually we'll hit a balance between personal happiness, freedom and a sufficient workforce/global economy. We'll also see the positives and the negative changes of that balances as well... which, as a disgusting misanthrope, I'm sickly eager to see what happens.

What's that? The global economy will be devastated and there will be a HUGE population decline and potential sub-group extinction. How terrible. I really do think that's bad and it sucks but I get sick pleasure out of it. Sorry
http://tnation.t-nation.com/forum_im...ng_popcorn.gif

[Cantih]

With those OK Cupid pictures, I'm curious if the answers to "Is there such a thing as too many sexual partners?" was also something they were directing at themselves.

Well, I don't know about the guys since I don't browse that side, but I can tell you answering yes to that question is fairly common on the other side of the aisle.