Transgender Philosophy (Questions, Ideology)

[Gredival]

I didn't argue that privilege doesn't exist, simply that many proponents of privilege don't see beyond your skin color.

This is really what's at the heart of the problem. SJWs who cry privilege don't even see the irony in how they are basically engaging in discrimination based on membership in the majority rather than minority.

I've identified myself as a feminist and an LBGT rights ally, and for the most part, have been one of the main proponents of both movements on the forum. Yet my small deviations from the ideological line on small issues (such as grammar, or whose voices we "value in conversation") have made me CIS normative scum.

[Stumblingdrunk]

If the representation is unrealistic, not-good things happen. This is partially where I cringe a bit during labeling/identification arguments, or more accurately, those who want to insist they're not different so treat them that way or else. Media serving as a safety bubble or creating unachievable empowerment can coddle this potentially toxic mindset.

What exactly is the mindset you're referring to and how is it toxic?

Overall, I'm getting the feeling this specific tangent isn't gonna get much traction because

because you entered a conversation about trans people and made it about futa porn...

[arus2001]

What exactly is the mindset you're referring to and how is it toxic?

See Gred's post just above yours.

because you entered a conversation about trans people and made it about futa porn...

Niche media, perhaps, but it still exists. Which is also why I went on to reference some less risque examples of blurring gender lines. At some point, any trans individual serious about becoming their perceived gender is likely going to cross-dress. Some may look fine, or what others could say is "passing" as the desired sex. For others, it may not be as easy to due to dominating physical characteristics beyond genitalia that people go on to distinguish with a specific sex. Hormones and surgery may help, but they may not. For those that "pass" and maybe even look better than average woman within roles, yet are further played by a female actress, is it a win for the movement? What films out there actually try to take this seriously instead of making a comedy out of it? Is SNL's Pat character adored or reviled for the androgyny and ribbing at the people who are confused? My query to exposure and subsequent references to things I've seen is to basically emphasize that I have not seen everything out there, or at least enough to convince me that transgendered individuals are given a fair shake. But at the same time, I wish to be cautious about treating them better than we would people not in their situation since you can't really have equality with preferential treatment. And that's a rub here, with feminism, affirmative action, and so on. There's also another moral dilemma in telling people they can be what they want to be, but if that something leads to violence against them or suicide (perhaps in part failing to pass in their own eyes even post-op), should we still encourage it?

Because if Barbie can fuck up the self-image of girls, I'm not seeing why bad trans media wouldn't do the same. So, what do we do about it?

[archibaldcrane]

Wouldn't that be Wop?

Wasn't he like a tiny Asian Brit?

[Stumblingdrunk]

yes

[archibaldcrane]

My statement stands.

[Gokku]

Posting this here instead of the news thread move it if needed but GO GO FLORIDA FOR BEING POS
Back on topic:

People who are Transgender could face charges in Florida for pretty much being transgender.

A proposed bill in Florida would make it illegal for a person to enter a public facility designated as single-sex if the person was not born a biological member of that sex. The measure would apply to bathrooms, dressing rooms, fitting rooms, locker rooms and showers, or wherever there is a "reasonable expectation of privacy."

Artiles' proposed law does not acknowledge people in the process of transitioning from one gender to another, nor those whose gender is no longer the one assigned at birth or those born intersex.

Link

[Blubbartron]

The communal areas (locker rooms, showers in most cases, etc) make a kind of sense to me. It's not exactly "nice", but it's going to prevent a hell of a lot of confusion, awkwardness, and potential anger/fear. The other areas are bullshit though. I don't know of any places where bathrooms have open toilet stalls, or dressing rooms where all the people try on clothes together. They're all single person stalls, and the "assigned gender" of those areas is pretty much pointless anyway.

[BerenTebogo]

The walking around with your dick out in locker rooms isn't really a requirement.

I manage to get in the shower in the lockers at my gym every morning without showing my cock to the world. Takes no extra time.

An 80 year old man was strolling about and shaving his face and just doing literally fucking everything in the world he could be doing while being 100% naked this morning. I would rather look at a 25 year old with his dick cut off than see that shit again.

Old cisnorm-whatever people being naked is far more traumatizing than anything else you could throw at me in there.

[Aksannyi]

I look at it like this.

I'm a woman, obviously I am a cis woman but this is how I see things, personally. I would be extremely uncomfortable in a locker room if I were forced to be in there with a bunch of men. I'd imagine that's how a trans woman would feel if put into that situation. I can't say the same for men, generally I think they'd be a bit more okay with being in a locker room with a bunch of women, but that still doesn't mean it wouldn't be awkward as fuck.

Also, why does this politician think he needs to protect women? Like women aren't capable of recognizing when a perv is in the locker room on their own? It isn't like random dudes are regularly walking into female locker rooms undetected. That's not generally a problem I've encountered. I just think that the reasoning is kind of flimsy, and it's more like "well I don't trust those filthy trans people" and less "we must protect the women!" At least, that's how it looks to me.

[Vandalhart]

After reading the article I can understand where the person proposing the bill is coming from. In fact, I believe I mentioned something similar to his stance in a post in the old thread.

I have a very uneducated view on an individual after SRS, but I'm assuming if you undergo the penis removal part, that they would create something that would act as a replacement. Unless there's a 2 part procedure, or maybe I'm not realizing that after the removal surgery people just have anal instead.

Personally, I wouldn't have an issue if there was a woman in the men's room with a penis, as this is what I'm expecting from the above proposed bill. That being said, it's not really fair to the woman, as she is a woman, so she should be allowed to use the women's facilities.

[Gokku]

Yo someone post the niiro links for him to read the thread names elude me and I know half of it was discussed in the rl Pic thread no?

There's alot of info about the male to female transition post op etc really good read iirc even gets the D at the end no?
EDIT: BOOOOO didnt get the D but still a great thread!

[Andalusian girls]

straight up anyone who wants a peek is free to come i'll change wherever and transosaurs are welcome to go where they please

[Stumblingdrunk]

Yo someone post the niiro links for him to read the thread names elude me and I know half of it was discussed in the rl Pic thread no?
There's alot of info about the male to female surgery post op etc really good read iirc even gets the D at the end no?

ftfy
The word "transition" in relation to trans folk refers to the process of changing genders, and includes but is not limited to surgeries. That thread was just about SRS/GCS (sex reassignment surgery/gender confirmation surgery) and did not include any discussion about any other aspects of transition.

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/114...rd-for-Nirokun

[Vandalhart]

Thanks, I'll give that a read tomorrow

[Enkidu]

Also, why does this politician think he needs to protect women? Like women aren't capable of recognizing when a perv is in the locker room on their own? It isn't like random dudes are regularly walking into female locker rooms undetected. That's not generally a problem I've encountered. I just think that the reasoning is kind of flimsy, and it's more like "well I don't trust those filthy trans people" and less "we must protect the women!" At least, that's how it looks to me.

What he's actually saying is under the current law, a dude could creep in the woman's locker room under the guise of "feeling like a woman" and nothing could be done to stop that behavior. Sure most men wouldn't do that, but that's not really the point - some would. People are weird.

I can't think of any reasonable way to make the above illegal without putting a law on the books that's inherently discriminatory to trans people.

[archibaldcrane]

Until "the above" is an actual issue, I think it's just an excuse to fuck with trans people.

[Lyall]

Both are potentially true. If you told guys that they could hang out in the ladies' gym locker room by claiming they were actually a woman, though, I'm sure there'd be people abusing the notion. Better, under the "You can't tell me how to feel" shield, they could probably take it to court and see a settlement out of it if they were precluded.

Never underestimate the lengths horny creeps will go to to see free titties.

It's as-likely this is just some old white dude not wanting to feel threatened in some way, though.

[Stumblingdrunk]

Until "the above" is an actual issue, I think it's just an excuse to fuck with trans people.

It's definitely some of that, but it is also a genuine fear of trans people too.

[Cream Soda]

No matter which way it goes, someone is going to get the shit end of the stick, which is why I'm neutral on the issue.