Transgender Philosophy (Questions, Ideology)

[zoobernut]

I also think the point is for a group of people that have a long history of being persecuted, beaten, humiliated, murdered, and other terrible things it does take a lot of bravery to be so public about it. It also is more than just Jenner it is about all the other people out there who feel marginalized and scared to be who they want to be and a very publicized case of a celebrity going through this process helps empower them.

We don't have a finite number of hero cards to hand out and Jenner being a hero doesn't take away from other people being heroes/brave.

[Eurell]

NO! ONLY SOLDIERS CAN BE BRAVE! NOONE ELSE!

[Blubbartron]

It's not just that people are caring about the bravery of Jenner more than soldiers, but the fact that it's a transgendered person as well, that bothers them so much. Not terribly surprising considering the military/its biggest supporters are overwhelmingly conservative Christians.

[Xno Kappa]

I personally don't care about who's got the bigger hero penis, no pun intended, but shit like Caitlynn getting the Arthur Ashe award over Lauren Hill or Noah Galloway is blatant pandering. It's damn near patronizing in my opinion.

[archibaldcrane]

We don't know whether Hill or Galloway were even considered

But we're dangerously close to a situation where if you aren't in the military then you should never be considered brave, and fuck that

[Kuya]

Why would only picking Jenner be pandering? If Galloway were chosen, wouldn't that be pandering to the people complaining now?

You see you can use the word pandering for anyone if you happen to disagree.

[kuronosan]

You mean you can. You know what he meant.

[Blubbartron]

Kuya's only kind of wrong. He's wrong that the definition of pandering has anything at all to do with whether the one claiming pandering disagrees with something. He's right that them changing their decision in order to placate the people bitching now would, in fact, be pandering. The point is that pandering is an objective thing, and it doesn't depend on how you feel about a certain subject. If someone makes a decision to support one side of an issue in whole or in part because supporting it gets them more support from others, then they're pandering.

More on topic, the people that chose Jenner for the Arthur Ashe award have come out and said that she was chosen "to help move forward a constructive dialogue about progress and acceptance." So I wouldn't call it pandering, but I would call it bullshit. Awards for courage shouldn't come with an agenda. They should be about courage, plain and simple. I'm tired of people shoving their politics and agendas in places they don't belong. That is the cancer that metastasizes into SJWs.

[NynJa]

Do you have a source that they admitted the choice was backed by an agenda? Not that i dont doubt it, but i would like to shut some people up who have been talking about Jenner non stop.

[Blubbartron]

Towards the bottom.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact...n-jenner-espn/

"The Arthur Ashe Courage Award is meant to honor individuals whose contributions transcend sports through courageous action. Sometimes that courage is demonstrated over the course of a lifetime and sometimes it is demonstrated in a single act that shines a light on an important contemporary issue. At all times, there are many worthy candidates. This year, we are proud to honor Caitlyn Jenner embracing her identity and doing so in a public way to help move forward a constructive dialogue about progress and acceptance."

It seems with the full quote there, it was talking about Jenner, and not the people who decide on the award. I may have been the victim of a fox news-like quote out of context from the first site that came up when I googled Arthur Ashe. Wasn't really paying attention. Regardless, the agenda must play some role in their choice. To think that Jenner is more courageous than some of the other examples is ridiculous, especially with the ulterior motive of money/fame staring Jenner in the face. That ulterior motive inherently lessens the amount of courage required to transition so publicly.

[Andalusian girls]

imagine a public award that doesn't have an agenda behind it

[Kuya]

That's crazy talk.

It's only an agenda when i don't like it.

[Thunder]

Of course it has an agenda... Jenner's transition probably required the least courage of all the transgender people out there. Can you come up with a better set of circumstances for a transgendered person, seriously? (background, finances, area of the world, fame, overall health/fitness, etcetc)

If the award really gave it to the "most braverest persons" out there nobody would give a shit about the no-names and the award would be relegated into obscurity. And if it was given to the other "really brave" people, like those quoted above, so what? Does it do anything to impact society to mourn the loss/courage of a 22 year old brain cancer victim? Or an army vet? I think the latter would affect military support but I doubt people would be very surprised if an army vet got a courage award.. so it wouldn't impact it a lot. Still think Jenner winning would impact the US in the most positive way - which is what these types of awards, titles, etc should be trying to do.. rather than find "the most brave person!" or whatever the public description of it is

[archibaldcrane]

Jeez

Thunder just crushed it

[kuronosan]

It's hard to argue that point, I'll admit.

[Yuri-G]

I suppose giving Caitlyn the award as a way to boost transgender acceptance and visibility in general rather than an award for her personal courage makes more sense. I still think it's a pile of celebrity-worshipping bandwagon bullshit though. there are transgendered men and women who have been fighting on the front lines of a cultural war for decades. people have died for the cause of transgender acceptance and awareness. Caitlyn, on her own, doesn't deserve jack shit.

[archibaldcrane]

You realize that the Arthur Ashe award is for athletes, right?

[Yuri-G]

I do.

[kuronosan]

Then I can't possibly see how you cannot see the fault in your statement.

[Yuri-G]

my statement was that Caitlyn doesn't deserve an award for what she's doing. I stand by that statement.