Transgender Philosophy (Questions, Ideology)

[6souls]

Y'all can't play nice, so y'all can fuck off.



Stop reporting every god damn post.

[Gredival]

Reopening because Milkster isn't in the section to spam report D44 anymore who is also removed.

Saw this bit of news that's worth discussing.

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2019/07/2...supreme-court/

This gets at a core issue that we need to address as a society right now. We've long recognized that there are limits, however extensive and far reaching, to parental rights. While we intervene in cases of abuse, or when a parent's religious beliefs are placing life and limb in danger, the right of a parent to prevent a trans child/teenager from seeking medical assistance has long-term implications for a trans individual's body; failure to take hormone blockers can permanently impair their ability to "pass" physically and can be a source of continued body dysphoria.

If SCOTUS decides to actually hear the case, the case probably rests on Roberts who may cop out to the 8th circuit decision.

[Robertfb]

Doubt it'll get ruled in her favor, even with the court the way it is, it would undermine all Emancipation laws and have far reaching consequences beyond just screwing us over.

Also since this is related to the thread, both the transgender and lesbian communities are upset and protesting a film coming out in a few weeks called "Adam"

It claims to be a queer comedy, but it's a dumpster hate filled film. The plot is essentially a cis man pretends to be a trans man in order to seduce a lesbian, who he ends up raping by lying to her and pretending his penis is a strap-on Dildo when they have sex and he "magically" turns her straight.... Yes seriously, it's based on a book by the same name.....

The trans actors in it are also protesting, they were lied to about the film they were making (given a completely different script and filmed scenes not related to the film), they were also mistreated and misgendered during filming. Director is also a trans man who claims doing this film is edgy and creative despite pissing off the whole community.... SMH

https://mobile.twitter.com/peachyhid...32909610708992

[guartz]

Doubt it'll get ruled in her favor, even with the court the way it is, it would undermine all Emancipation laws and have far reaching consequences beyond just screwing us over.

Also since this is related to the thread, both the transgender and lesbian communities are upset and protesting a film coming out in a few weeks called "Adam"

It claims to be a queer comedy, but it's a dumpster hate filled film. The plot is essentially a cis man pretends to be a trans man in order to seduce a lesbian, who he ends up raping by lying to her and pretending his penis is a strap-on Dildo when they have sex and he "magically" turns her straight.... Yes seriously, it's based on a book by the same name.....

The trans actors in it are also protesting, they were lied to about the film they were making (given a completely different script and filmed scenes not related to the film), they were also mistreated and misgendered during filming. Director is also a trans man who claims doing this film is edgy and creative despite pissing off the whole community.... SMH

https://mobile.twitter.com/peachyhid...32909610708992

so a Borat of the lgbtq community?

[kuronosan]

I actually have an ethical dilemma to figure out when it comes to medicine, as we encounter this issue from time to time.

When is HRT appropriate? How can you be sure someone won't change their mind? And yes, timing of hormones is incredibly important to physical development. Who makes that choice? A child, who legally isn't emotionally developed enough to understand its permanence? Parents?

We get this question frequently with sterilization. We are taught to essentially refuse to perform total hysterectomies in young females because they may change their mind. Why is it inherently good or bad on behalf of the doctor to do so?

[Rhyis.]

As far as I'm concerned it should always come down to the parents or legal guardian. When they come of legal age they can make that choice for themselves then.
Kids are fucking morons.

[Fiye]

As far as I'm concerned it should always come down to the parents or legal guardian. When they come of legal age they can make that choice for themselves then.
Kids are fucking morons.

Just like the parents we let send their kids to conversion therapy camps?

Naw

[Rhyis.]

Just like the parents we let send their kids to conversion therapy camps?

Naw

Kids are stupid 100% of the time. Adults are stupid 50% of the time. I'll take that math all day long.
The day you start basing policies and legislation around the exception to the rule, you're officially fucked.

[Robertfb]

My mom had this argument with me yesterday where she thought puberty blockers should be banned and the parents should be absolute authority on all decisions until 18, because she "heard" parents were forcing kids to get HRT at a young age (she cited an episode of "Boston Legal" as an example).

I explained to her, that NO, kids don't get put on HRT at a young age, it's a common myth. They do get put on puberty blockers though, which all it does is delay the changes from puberty, until they are of legal age to decide if they want to go on HRT or stop blockers and let puberty take its course.

Someone explained it best on MtF reddit when this got brought up: "What's more harmful to the child? Being made fun of for being underdeveloped for a few years or being forced to go through the wrong puberty that has irreversible effects and costs ten's of thousands of dollars to fix?"

[Fiye]

Kids are stupid 100% of the time. Adults are stupid 50% of the time. I'll take that math all day long.

Sure they are.

https://jezebel.com/trans-teen-dies-...res-1676351625

[Rhyis.]

Sure they are.

https://jezebel.com/trans-teen-dies-...res-1676351625

Think about it like this. How many decisions in your own life would you allow a teenager make for you? On the flip side, how many decisions in your own life are already made by other adults?

You can throw single case exceptions at me all day long, but kids are dumb. Period. You wouldn't let a teenager make a decision about the food you eat let alone a decision that will effect both them, and all the people in their lives, for literally the rest of their lives.

[Eurell]

My mom had this argument with me yesterday where she thought puberty blockers should be banned and the parents should be absolute authority on all decisions until 18, because she "heard" parents were forcing kids to get HRT at a young age (she cited an episode of "Boston Legal" as an example).

I explained to her, that NO, kids don't get put on HRT at a young age, it's a common myth. They do get put on puberty blockers though, which all it does is delay the changes from puberty, until they are of legal age to decide if they want to go on HRT or stop blockers and let puberty take its course.

Someone explained it best on MtF reddit when this got brought up: "What's more harmful to the child? Being made fun of for being underdeveloped for a few years or being forced to go through the wrong puberty that has irreversible effects and costs ten's of thousands of dollars to fix?"

This really does seem like the obvious answer to me.

Block until the kid is old enough to make their own decisions and has been to therapy to make sure they are making the right choice. Then go HRT and do w/e surgery you want after that

[Fiye]

Think about it like this. How many decisions in your own life would you allow a teenager make for you? On the flip side, how many decisions in your own life are already made by other adults?

You can throw single case exceptions at me all day long, but kids are dumb. Period. You wouldn't let a teenager make a decision about the food you eat let alone a decision that will effect both them, and all the people in their lives, for literally the rest of their lives.

If a kid complains about pain do you ignore them and refuse to take them to the hospital because they're dumb and don't know what they're talking about or do you take them to get checked up on?

[Rhyis.]

If a kid complains about pain do you ignore them and refuse to take them to the hospital because they're dumb and don't know what they're talking about or do you take them to get checked up on?

Uh, your analogy works against you. Before you have surgery on something that isn't working in your body you see a general physician to see what the underlying issue is to begin with. There are dozens of steps you hit long before you even start talking about chemically changing your hormonal balance. One of them being having your kid see a therapist to ensure you even have the correct knowledge of whats going on with your kid to begin with.

I'm not sure what world you live in where you think to yourself "I have a heart problem", and without even taking the dozens of steps you're supposed to take, you just walk in and get a pace maker installed. Because that's the current scenario you're giving out.

[Fiye]

Uh, your analogy works against you. Before you have surgery on something that isn't working in your body you see a general physician to see what the underlying issue is to begin with. There are dozens of steps you hit long before you even start talking about chemically changing your hormonal balance. One of them being having your kid see a therapist to ensure you even have the correct knowledge of whats going on with your kid to begin with.

I'm not sure what world you live in where you think to yourself "I have a heart problem", and without even taking the dozens of steps you're supposed to take, you just walk in and get a pace maker installed. Because that's the current scenario you're giving out.

Where am I arguing for surgery?

[Rhyis.]

That was my analogy. You can ignore that sentence if it makes you happy.

[Fiye]

That was my analogy. You can ignore that sentence if it makes you happy.

And you can ignore the article I posted which clearly described the situation that particular transgirl experienced. Where when she came out she was basically told she's retarded and to stfu.



And instead of seeking unbiased professional helped they were streamlined into a culture that enforced the mother's beliefs.



And what lessons were taken by the mother? Probably none.



Nowhere am I advocating for children to be streamlined into getting top, bottom, facial reconstruction surgery or will I ever. But there needs to be an understanding and willing from parents to listen to their children and follow up with actual professional help and not ignore what the fuck they're saying.

Unless there's a pharmacist who's prescribing tiddy skittles the moment anyone asks.

[Fiye]

Or maybe we should dig into the primary sources of Gred's article instead of peddling statistical nonsense as facts.

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-...ks-out-n712616

[Rhyis.]

What the fuck is a Christian therapist lol

The point is, even somewhat decent parents are going to care about the well being of their child and their future. Their decision making and thought process is going to be vastly more mature and reasoned than a child or teenagers in every way imaginable. If the parents care at all they will probably have already included at minimum, a therapist and family doctor in the decision making process as well. That's a lot of professionals to influence the parents decision making in the correct manner already.

A kid is just going to do whatever their current emotions are telling them to do because that's what being a teenager is. You're a walking ball of emotions with no experiences to take from.

Who do you think has the best path towards having a measured and reasoned decision making process?

[Fiye]

What the fuck is a Christian therapist lol

The point is, even somewhat decent parents are going to care about the well being of their child and their future. Their decision making and thought process is going to be vastly more mature and reasoned than a child or teenagers in every way imaginable. If the parents cares at all they will probably have already included at minimum, a therapist and family doctor in the decision making process as well. That's a lot of professionals to influence the parents decision making in the correct manner already.

A kid is just going to do whatever their current emotions are telling them to do because that's what being a teenager is. You're a walking ball of emotions with no experiences to take from.

Who do you think has the best path towards having a measured and reasoned decision making process?

An unbiased professional who's licensed to practice.