Transgender Philosophy (Questions, Ideology)

[kuronosan]

Like I understand mental development takes off rapidly during the teenage years; even kids who are smart and bright in elementary school are limited in ways that below average teenagers are not. But AFAIK that does not have a relation to the physical developments of puberty it's just that brains are growing the same way that bodies do.

Halting puberty may have some effect on brain chemistry but I'd say socialization probably has a more profound effect.

[archibaldcrane]

wrong thread

[Cichy]

To elaborate on this, if you don't think that this doesn't seem like a fair assessment, imagine if a gay person told you that you don't really know if you are straight and that you should have some gay sex before saying you're straight because you can't know without the experience.

Yes some people experiment to find out that they are bisexual or gay. But others know very much so right away who they are attracted to.

We're not talking about who they are attracted to. There's people who transition from a man to a woman and date women because they identify as a lesbian.
My beef is with transitioning children who are yet to have sexual experience. I'd say most kids 8-12 have no sexual inclinations but you're fine with permanently altering their body. All I'm saying is wait few years and try some intimacy with your original plumbing with w/e sex you prefer. It seems a much safer option than altering your body for cosmetic reasons.

[Fiye]

My beef is with transitioning children who are yet to have sexual experience. I'd say most kids 8-12 have no sexual inclinations but you're fine with permanently altering their body. All I'm saying is wait few years and try some intimacy with your original plumbing with w/e sex you prefer. It seems a much safer option than altering your body for cosmetic reasons.

Have you read anything from the last two fucking pages?

[archibaldcrane]

he clearly doesn't understand that sexual orientation and gender are just not the same thing

[Gredival]

We're not talking about who they are attracted to. There's people who transition from a man to a woman and date women because they identify as a lesbian.
My beef is with transitioning children who are yet to have sexual experience. I'd say most kids 8-12 have no sexual inclinations but you're fine with permanently altering their body. All I'm saying is wait few years and try some intimacy with your original plumbing with w/e sex you prefer. It seems a much safer option than altering your body for cosmetic reasons.

I knew I liked girls when I was 6 or so before I had any idea of sexuality. My heterosexuality was a relatively easy part of my identity to figure out.

For trans persons it's usually the same thing. Trans people usually say they knew from a very young age that they weren't like other boys/girls and that they were attracted to things associated with the opposite sex. They may not understand exactly what they are feeling until later in life, but once they have the concept of trans introduced to them it is usually very clear to them right away. It's a word to give form to a concept they live their entire lives grappling with.

[Andalusian girls]

I knew I liked girls when I was 6 or so

just fuck a guy

fuck one guy

you can't know you don't want to until you do

[Rooney]

Also, I'm pretty sure no one here is advocating for transitioning children. Simply putting them on puberty blockers. All that does is block puberty until a decision is made (after therapy, etc). If the kid decides they don't want to transition, they stop taking them and puberty kicks in like normal and typical development happens.

[Gredival]

just fuck a guy

fuck one guy

you can't know you don't want to until you do

I dated a girl who later transitioned to be a guy. Does that count?

[Fiye]

Also, I'm pretty sure no one here is advocating for transitioning children. Simply putting them on puberty blockers. All that does is block puberty until a decision is made (after therapy, etc). If the kid decides they don't want to transition, they stop taking them and puberty kicks in like normal and typical development happens.

Puberty blockers to me are a measure to give more time for both the child and therapist to decide whether or not transitioning is the right choice. If a teenager is dead set on it and they have been presenting as the other gender for about a year I see no issue why they shouldn't be allowed to make the choice to go on with HRT.

But my daughter is more than comfortable as herself and being a girl so I don't have to worry about that.

[Rooney]

Was more refuting the argument that somehow puberty blockers inevitably lead to HRT and surgery. I entirely agree that they're a stopgap until an informed decision can be made.

[kuronosan]

I'd say most kids 8-12 have no sexual inclinations

You'd be wrong.

[Gredival]

I asked a psychiatrist friend because I like peer reviewed research unlike Nynja, and she said there is evidence that a not-insignificant minority of cases gender dysphoria in teenagers and children resolve by themselves when the patient reaches adulthood.

[Ksandra]

I'd say most kids 8-12 have no sexual inclination

The average age a girl gets her period is 12, so saying most before that might be a stretch. Especially considering they say boys tend to start sooner than girls.

[Ksandra]

I dated a girl who later transitioned to be a guy. Does that count?

Totally irrelevant to the discussion, BUT:

I dated a guy in HS who just came out as a woman this year.

It's a very sad situation for our friends and me since she cut off basically everyone she knew back when she was a guy. So it's like my friend died, but no funeral or anything. And I know she's there, but doesn't want to talk to any of us.




Which is even worse because my friends and I are very accepting of people and she knows that.


At the end of the day, you gotta do what you gotta do, it just hurts to think that was a bridge she felt she needed to burn.

[Gredival]

Totally irrelevant to the discussion, BUT:

I dated a guy in HS who just came out as a woman this year.

It's a very sad situation for our friends and me since she cut off basically everyone she knew back when she was a guy. So it's like my friend died, but no funeral or anything. And I know she's there, but doesn't want to talk to any of us.




Which is even worse because my friends and I are very accepting of people and she knows that.


At the end of the day, you gotta do what you gotta do, it just hurts to think that was a bridge she felt she needed to burn.

The way he explained it to me is that he looks at himself and his life before he transitioned like it was his sister who passed and to an extent those memories don't feel like his anymore.

[Fiye]

The way he explained it to me is that he looks at himself and his life before he transitioned like it was his sister who passed and to an extent those memories don't feel like his anymore.

[Gredival]

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/8...g-girly-enough

Another SCOTUS case. Trans woman fired because she couldn't pass as a woman in the eyes of her employer, therefore she was not conforming to the dress code standards.

I believe current law on dress codes is that there can be differences in male and female dress requirements as long as they are not rooted in gendered norms. For example, it's ok to have rules requiring proper grooming which requires male facial hair be kept to different standards than are required of females, but it is not permissible to have rules prohibiting slacks and requiring skirts for women.

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[Robertfb]

That case has been pending for a long time, but the heart of the issue was (and the employer even testified to it) not the dress code, but more about how she wouldn't pass as a cis woman because trans, the dress code part was just an excuse to discrimination fire her.

If the SC does rule in his favor (probably will since they've screwed us before and it's very conservative now), this won't just allow job discrimination for trans people, but will revert all women back to the restrictive dress codes of the 1950s.

There is iirc another trans rights case coming before the SC this year as well, but can't remember how it'll screw us over (think it's the trans kids rights to use their preferred gender bathrooms), so this has the potential to be a fuck you year for trans rights from the SC.... /sigh

[guartz]

The above two lawsuits are about social conventions that are apparently inherently discriminatory? What social norm isn't discriminatory for transgender people? I'm not being indignant here, it's just social norms are categories and that means they are inherently discriminatory. I assume that judges would have to weigh how much discrimination is acceptable in every instance of these lawsuits. I don't envy them the job.