2016 USA Presidential election thread I: The warm-up

[Gredival]

If Biden entered, he would immediately but barely edge Sanders, 25 to 24, with Clinton at 33.

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/ar...in-4-democrats

[Serra]

Just watched Trump on Colbert from last night. He was surprisingly soft-spoken and likable during the first half. And then Colbert brought up immigration..

[notorious bum]

What the shit is this? LOL

[Sho]

Trump stated he won't be appearing on FOX for the foreseeable future:

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/0...ox-news-213971

http://money.cnn.com/2015/09/23/medi...d=hp-stack-dom

"Fox News has been treating me very unfairly & I have therefore decided that I won't be doing any more Fox shows for the foreseeable future"

Half empty room in North Charleston:



The irony is that it's a convention for Black Businesses, but it's empty, and full of white people.

[notorious bum]

[Sho]

Dis nigga.

[Melena]

Republican candidates are in are form the past few days. Huckabee: Obama is only pretending to be Christian. Bush: A Multicultural US is wrong (though he amended it to say that different races segregating but living in the country is wrong, not immigrants) Carson: No, I do not. I would not advocate that we put a Muslim in the White House. And these are just from the front page of CNN today......

[kuronosan]

What the shit is this? LOL

I guess if you have diabetes, schizophrenia, heart disease, or AIDS, it's a lifesaver.

If you plan on letting more companies jack up rates.

What a fucking toolbag.

[Tyche]

I guess if you have diabetes, schizophrenia, heart disease, or AIDS, it's a lifesaver.

If you plan on letting more companies jack up rates.

What a fucking toolbag.

I'm confused about two things.
One, why is she getting such shit for posting that? $250 is incredibly cheap for a lot of people.
Two, how would she even begin to make that happen?

[Churchill]

I am sure the plan includes cutting programs / taxes and not addressing the problems discussed in the other thread.

[Gredival]

One, why is she getting such shit for posting that? $250 is incredibly cheap for a lot of people.

Because it's not as liberal as Bernie's solution of completely nationalized health care.

[Cantih]

And it's a bit like the emoji thing. Sure $250 is affordable and for a lot of people, but it is also unaffordable for a lot of people, and it shows a disconnect between her campaign and that group.

[Kanriel]

$250/month is a huge amount to tack onto like...1/3 of the entire US population. Maybe more. Shit, my mortgage isn't even twice that amount.

[Gredival]

And it's a bit like the emoji thing. Sure $250 is affordable and for a lot of people, but it is also unaffordable for a lot of people, and it shows a disconnect between her campaign and that group.

I'd love to have fully nationalized health care, but I also realize that the US is a country where a moderate Obama is considered a Muslim socialist Nazi here to take everyone's guns so that the citizenry can't rise up when he gifts a nuclear weapon to Iran, all the while using Obamacare to ruin the health care system so that he fund a Planned Parenthood mega-abortion complex.

It isn't going to happen when you look at how much trouble has been caused by national level Romneycare. So I think it's perfectly understandable why Clinton doesn't over-promise. As I said, that's what makes her a good politician. But it makes some people dislike her because they've forgotten that they're voting for a politician.

[notorious bum]

What you think makes her a good politician, along with most analysts, is something that is quickly losing favor with the country, certainly the younger generation. Her favorability numbers are dreadful, her campaign and the not-so subtle Super PAC attack strategy seems to only fuel "the Bern." If Biden drops in, she's toast. Not that Biden is realistically a better choice.

Her education and health care "policy" is just another continuation of leaving the poor out in the cold. The number living in poverty will only grow under her reign, so I'm sure the rage from current protests will transform into true panic from greater economic uncertainty and continued injustice playing out on wallstreet.

tl;dr Hillbot is running a shit campaign and her gilded toilet paper is starting to really piss off your average Joe the Plumber.

[Marootsoobutsu]

What you think makes her a good politician, along with most analysts, is something that is quickly losing favor with the country, certainly the younger generation. Her favorability numbers are dreadful, her campaign and the not-so subtle Super PAC attack strategy seems to only fuel "the Bern." If Biden drops in, she's toast. Not that Biden is realistically a better choice.

Her education and health care "policy" is just another continuation of leaving the poor out in the cold. The number living in poverty will only grow under her reign, so I'm sure the rage from current protests will transform into true panic from greater economic uncertainty and continued injustice playing out on wallstreet.

tl;dr Hillbot is running a shit campaign and her gilded toilet paper is starting to really piss off your average Joe the Plumber.

The younger generation are no smarter than any other younger generation are. They are idiots, without knowledge or understanding of how the world works. All of us were; some are growing up, and Hillary knows this. She *IS* a good politician-- and I really don't like her. But she is very, very good at politics. The reality is that things will change from this whole pissed-off phase about as much as any tantrum changes anything. Bern and Trump are stalling, and even if Biden jumps in, Hillary is still ahead, and she hasn't started taking off her gloves-- she wants to commit to as little as possible in the primaries, so that she doesn't alienate the only 7% of the population who matter-- the voting, independent moderates in swing-states/near swing states. Yeah, folks are upset right now-- they should be. But the folks who are the most upset aren't the independent moderates. The independent moderates who make the biggest difference are the people who really haven't been paying close attention for the last 3 years, will make up their mind in October 2016, and the trick is to just not provide enough scandal-bait between basically then and now. Hillary knows this. Jeb knows this.

This pissed-offness isn't new-- it's been going on since at least the 1820s, and likely longer. It flares, it dies down, and little changes in the actual process. Here's what the angry youth need to know: they aren't special, they aren't more insightful when their parents were when THEY were angry youths, and they, in turn, aren't more insightful than THEIR parents were, and so on and so forth. For as long as people have been basically saying, "These damned kids these days," the kids have been saying, "These stupid old people." The changes that come? They're slow, they're incremental, and they happen not when the youths get active, but when the youths get old and their fire has cooled and they can affect one change here or one change there. The biggest, most singly important change that has happened in the West in the last 500 years, apart from the American Revolution, was the Civil Rights movement-- and THAT wasn't about youth being pissed, but about middle-aged folks not taking it any more, and working the system. Not necessarily WITH the system, but working it nonetheless. The youth who were involved frankly nearly discredited it with their violent, emotional, reactionary responses.


As for the pills...

I do agree that the number is laughable-- for the people dropping it to $250 would matter for, $250 is still too much, and for the people it won't matter for... well, it won't matter. The *AVERAGE* American household is spending $78~ per month on prescriptions and medical supplies (plus another $280~ on medical insurance). That's per household-- so cut that $78 to a third, and you're looking at $26 that the average person spends (or, in the case of kids, has spent on them) per month. About 1/10th what Hilldog is suggesting. And for what all of THAT is worth, my Mrs. has no adrenaline glands, has had tumors in her heart and brain, and is on a whole wonderful cocktail of medicine... and so we've spent an extra $30/month on a better prescription-friendly insurance plan, and spend $15 month past that. The number of people spending $250/month on prescriptions has to be minuscule, though I suppose it'd be more common among the elderly voters, who are a pretty big get for the politicians. Y'know, the ones who actually know how to win an election.

[kuronosan]

I'm confused about two things.
One, why is she getting such shit for posting that? $250 is incredibly cheap for a lot of people.
Two, how would she even begin to make that happen?

Because it will inevitably cause the price of less expensive drugs to go up, or it demonstrates that the cost of drugs being capped at $250/mo doesn't help the people who still can't afford medication that costs $250/mo.

I make $60/yr right now and with all my obligations I certainly couldn't afford $250/mo.

Now could I afford more than that if caps weren't in place? No, but that's the entire reason the system is broken.

[Gredival]

What you think makes her a good politician, along with most analysts, is something that is quickly losing favor with the country, certainly the younger generation. Her favorability numbers are dreadful, her campaign and the not-so subtle Super PAC attack strategy seems to only fuel "the Bern." If Biden drops in, she's toast. Not that Biden is realistically a better choice.

Her education and health care "policy" is just another continuation of leaving the poor out in the cold. The number living in poverty will only grow under her reign, so I'm sure the rage from current protests will transform into true panic from greater economic uncertainty and continued injustice playing out on wallstreet.

tl;dr Hillbot is running a shit campaign and her gilded toilet paper is starting to really piss off your average Joe the Plumber.

Pissed off electorates are very good at clogging the system and preventing things from getting done; see Obama's entire Presidency, even with 60 (D) Senators in a super-majority. But actual progress is slow and made through concerted, calculated, and ultimately small, steps.

We've been fighting for health care reform for two decades and all of Obama's political capital after a sweeping mandate election didn't even get a nationalized system -- we got nationalized Romneycare. And even that has been subjected to endless legal challenges.

Bernie can talk all he wants about what the real problems are and the solutions. But even supposing he can win (which he can't), it doesn't matter. He gets elected, Citizens United doesn't automatically goes away. He gets elected, it doesn't mean he can ram Medicare for all through. He gets elected, it doesn't mean he can raise the minimum wage to $15.

Governing is going to require working with a House of Representatives that will be (R) dominated for the foreseeable future. A bloc of voters that consider his platform absolute anathema.

Hillary is willing to play the game, trade chits, and be the typical politician. And that's how she will get shit done.

"Look I don’t believe you change hearts. I believe you change laws, you change allocation of resources, you change the way systems operate. You’re not going to change every heart. You’re not. But at the end of the day, we could do a whole lot to change some hearts and change some systems and create more opportunities for people who deserve to have them, to live up to their own God-given potential, to live safely without fear of violence in their own communities, to have a decent school, to have a decent house, to have a decent future."

You think that viewpoint is why she's part of the problem. That viewpoint is why she would be a better President than Bernie, even if she's wrong on the issues.

The system is broken. The problem is you still have to work with it.

[Cantih]

The trouble is, the pace the broken system is going at is much slower than the pace of problems piling up.
The situation will not long survive with those conditions.

You're saying this is how the situation is, and will continue to be.
Were saying you're right, that's how the situation is, but you're wrong on how it will continue, because with everything coming just over the horizon, it's simply not possible for that to be the case.

[Serra]

He's saying the system is broken but you have to work within the confines of the system to change it.