2016 USA Presidential election thread I: The warm-up

[Dimmauk]

Well I only go to church maybe 3 times a year, so there is that.

[Ksandra]

I get the logic behind this, but I refuse to applaud people for not being totally terrible.

The Pope is basically a good PR machine. He has progressive messages but he doesn't do a whole lot. I've had this argument on BG before so I'm gonna leave it at that.

So you are saying you absolutely hated Nelson Mandela as well?

No one has clean hands, no one. Again, I think it valid to be upset he isn't doing more, but to make it seem like the fact he isn't trying to fix other people's poor actions negates every other good thing he does, seems extreme.


With that said, when I say people think he is satan for kissing the boy, I meant that literally, not as a hyperbole. That specifically his action of doing so is proof he is Satan by being a false idol and trying to get people to worship him instead of God.

I assume you are an atheist so my comment didn't even apply to you.

[Tyrath]

Just because I don't think the pope is the super progressive he's made out to be doesn't mean I hate him.

[thetruepandagod]

So you are saying you absolutely hated Nelson Mandela as well?

There are a lot of posters on BG better than mandela.

[Ksandra]

Just because I don't think the pope is the super progressive he's made out to be doesn't mean I hate him.

oh that's right, you just think he's "not that totally terrible"

[Tyrath]

Yeah, I don't see where that leads into me hating him as a person. Hate is a strong word. I reserve it for morons like Kim Davis.

He's still the head of a super corrupt organization that claims to have moral superiority while it has countless moral lapses of its own. He's better than what was there before, but for the vicar of christ, it's not good enough. I only hold him to such huge standards because of the silly claims the church itself makes of the position. If he were an average person, I am sure he would be a perfectly okay guy.

[Ksandra]

He's still the head of a super corrupt organization that claims to have moral superiority while it has countless moral lapses of its own.

Pretty sure one of his goals is to show those that he does not consider himself to have moral superiority. The Pope is sort of a living example of what Catholics consider to be a "good Christian" and he is trying very hard to show that that means to have compassion for one another and stop judging others.

As to your initial comment:

But it amuses me that the same conservatives who invoke god in everything are angry at the head of the religion.

He in no way would be considered the head of Christianity. At most, the head of the Catholic (Orthodox) church. You should understand that the majority of religious conservatives in the US are evangelical Christians who a. don't follow the Pope and b. don't even consider Catholics to be Christians.

[Tyrath]

And you must understand that infighting among different sects of christianity is still amusing to me as a baby eating atheist.

[Marootsoobutsu]

b. don't even consider Catholics to be Christians.

This part has been changing a lot in recent years, particularly with the rise of Mormonism-- and it should also be noted that Evangelicals tend to consider Catholics Christians much more often than non-Evangelical Protestants; Evangelicals work a lot more with cross-denomination projects than non-Evangelicals tend to, particularly in mission fields where word gets brought back. There's a very strong difference on a lot of beliefs between Catholics and Christians, but the core of Christianity is still agreed upon by both. Things are a bit different in some parts of the country, and (as usual), the South is slower on the up-take than the rest of the country, but it really has been going through a pretty significant change over the last 25 years or so.

[Andalusian girls]

There are a lot of posters on BG better than mandela.

why thank you

I don't get Carson, at all.

differentiation, primarily. a soft-spoken world-renowned neurosurgeon with a markedly different charisma than any other candidate, and one who trumpets God often and loudly (evangelicals have no natural candidate for the first time in many cycles given Huckabee's been there failed that aroma). even more than Trump i suspect much of his support is shouldered by the flightly, low-information voters who propped up Bachman and Cain last cycle but who bolt to frontrunners and flavor-of-the-weeks when campaigning begins in earnest. though he could entrench some loyalty among the Gog and Magog squad if he continues to talk about how Muslims are unfit for office

[Andalusian girls]

Bleh I don't see why agreeing with accepted science gets the Pope lauded as a huge progressive. Is the bar for Christians that low? He's still the head of a corrupt organization that protects child molesters.

my thoughts exact. it's certainly an improvement to have a papal figure talk about poverty more often than sin (charitable giving being by far the best function of the Catholic Church), and Francis himself is undoubtedly an uncommonly moral individual, but the organizations remains what it is.

and what it is is a foundationally regressive, misogynistic, and stultifying apparatus with an inveterate compulsion for control, particularly control over genitalia, an institution that states man was made in the image of Christ but women must have been made in some other way, an institution so cripplingly insecure in the expression of human sexuality that it protects the twisted virgins who rape the children entrusted to them after being denied every possible avenue of love and less notoriously, though perhaps more prevalently, also protects these repressed wretches when they prey on the women who devote their lives to the church, an institution that teaches Africans HIV and AIDS may be bad but dying slowly of blood poisoning is still preferable to contraception, an institution that tells gays and lesbians that who they love makes them sick and then commands them to be sound on pain of eternal suffering, an institution so much more concerned with resisting a woman's right to choose than with resisting the murderous sadistic regimes with which it has so often lain in bed, a totalitarian institution that subsists on the master-slave relationship of a less enlightened world demanding supine submission before it in mind, body, and soul. an institution perpetuating an old lie.

he is a nice man but the church remains an enemy

[Sho]

We need a Pope thread, but holy fuck I do not understand some of the vitrol people have towards this man. I think needing more action towards the child molesters is a very very valid criticism, and I don't fault people for not liking him for that. But to think the guy is satan on earth for kissing a disabled boy boggles my fucking mind.

Welcome to post-Obama politics, where it's okay to demonize anything and everything that doesn't conform to your perception of reality.

Hopefully you guys aren't misinterpreting me.

1) I'm religious, both Christian (not Catholic) and Muslim (long story).
2) I love this Pope.

I just have a problem with all of the pageantry going on around him. Of course he appreciates the gesture Philadelphia has put towards him, but I doubt he wanted it to be this grand party at all. He could have done with all of the near shark jumping at his expense, I'm sure. There were many times watching him looking awkward as hell on stage. He's such a simple man who lives what he teaches, he actually goes to the poor and ministers and provides succor to the poor than pontificating from on high (no puns). You have to respect that, even if you are of another religion or athiest.

[Serra]

Democrats: Nothing new to report -- Clinton still at the top, Sanders still in second but rising. First Democratic debate is in like two weeks though, so maybe we'll see a change then.

Republicans: Trump at 21%, Carson at 20%, Fiorina and Rubio at 11%, and Bush at 7% rounds out the top five.

[Sho]

Boehner trashes GOP over "false prophet claims":

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/27/politi...ups/index.html

I have a lot more respect for this man, partially for being in such a thankless job as Speaker when you have Republican House and Senate majority and a Democrat in the White House., secondly for exposing these GOP frauds.

People on the extreme right think that they can just shut down government over the defunding or funding of a bill to suit their political whims, but it's not that easy, especially when the Senate in question leans in line with the WH. It didn't work in 2011, it didn't work in 2013, and it won't work now. Shutting down government for no reason just looks bad towards everyone's constituents. In some people's cases like Cruz and Rubio, they know full well that shutting down government will do absolutely nothing other than waste tax payer money and make them look bad. I mean it's one of the sole reasons why people are looking towards a Trump, Fiorina, and Carson in the first place.

[Ragnus]

Was listening to Rubio being interviewed on NPR on the way into work today. The current spin on the government shutdown is that it's totally the Dems' fault if it happens because they're prioritizing the funding of one organization over keeping this country open for business.

Also a funny jab a Trump in response to him being called a clown. Called Trump's campaign a freak show immediately saying he wasn't interested in partaking in the name calling game.

[Serra]

Asked specifically if Cruz, a GOP presidential candidate, was a "false prophet," Boehner didn't dispute it. He even pointed to his comment at a private fundraiser, leaked to reporters later, that Cruz is a "jackass."

I need to find a video of this..

[Sho]

Was listening to Rubio being interviewed on NPR on the way into work today. The current spin on the government shutdown is that it's totally the Dems' fault if it happens because they're prioritizing the funding of one organization over keeping this country open for business.

Of course he would say it's the Dem's fault. He didn't tell the listeners how they denied the Senate Democrats any negotiations over 18 times during the course of the 2013 Obamacare fiasco, but they themselves attempted negotiations within one hour of the shutdown. Or how multiple Republicans lauded the idea of a government shutdown publicly days before in a "moment of solidarity." Dudes are all full of shit, lol.

[thetruepandagod]

live UN assembly debate for those interested

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-YO6wabsLQ

[Tyrath]

Sho I want to hear the long story about you being Christian and Muslim. PM me if it's not relevant here.

[BaneTheBrawler]

I don't see a way to moderate from tap talk so take the Pope discussion to a new thread.