2016 USA Presidential election thread I: The warm-up

[Gredival]

Ya'll probably heard about Bern raking in that dough recently for only his 7th fundraiser, but here's some more fun facts on how terrible Hilldog's campaign is:


http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/p...er-the-summer/

I think we'll see what real desperation looks like after she gets blasted in the debates.

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/1...14350?cmpid=sf

As was said a few pages back, you're welcome to bemoan the fact our democracy is like this. But fixing it requires more than the will of the people. These interests are entrenched and their reify themselves. Change has to come from within. Even IF Bernie was elected, he can't will a fix just because he has a mandate no more than Obama could.

[Sho]

Oh god, he's "the chart guy" at the planned parenthood hearings?

He's the chart guy. A super idiot.

In other news, a tragedy happens, Jeb Bush then exclaims: "Stuff happens." in a sit down.



Just as oblivious as his brother. Allergic to high poll numbers.

[Galkaeater]

Theres nothing wrong with what he said

[Sho]

Essentially there's nothing wrong at all. Stuff does in fact happen.

However, his words will almost certainly be conveyed in the worst possible way. It's crunch time for the man -- he's supposed to be especially careful with anything he states even if he's trying to be objective. Obama has just challenged people to reflect on just how many tragedies have occurred over gun violence within the last 10 years, and Bush just makes a shortsighted statement such as this all the while.

[archibaldcrane]

He's basically saying we shouldn't overreact to a single event. Which is true.

When we can't go a calendar week without a mass shooting, when our murder rate is more than DOUBLE every OECD nation besides Mexico, Estonia, and Chile, we are well beyond "a single incident".

[Serra]

Apparently what he says is counter to what he did as Governor:

http://gawker.com/you-dont-pass-a-po...wns-1734383068

Although small government vs big government argument there..

[Tyrath]

Although small government vs big government argument there..

Which I've always thought was a dumbass argument because the federal government needs to take action when dealing with problematic 'stuff.' To hell with your state rights.

[Serra]

I mean, it is what the Constitution lays out..

[Tyrath]

I mean, it is what the Constitution lays out..

Yeah and the constitution has the 2nd amendment too. I don't necessarily think every single thing the constitution did was smart for the year 2015. Back then, yeah.

[kareface]

http://www.theonion.com/article/no-w...ere-this-36131

This is what I think every time I hear the argument that stuff happens. It CAN happen anywhere, but that doesn't mean that we can't do anything to improve things.

[notorious bum]

I prefer Dubya when it comes to saying dumb quotables. At least he had the comedic element going for him.

[Gredival]

“A child drowned in a pool and the impulse is to pass a law that puts fencing around pools. Well it may not change it. Or you have a car accident and the impulse is to pass a law that deals with that unique event. And the cumulative effect of this is, in some cases, you don’t solve the problem by passing the law, and you’re imposing on large numbers of people burdens that make it harder for our economy to grow, make it harder to protect liberty.”

In May of 2000, Jeb signed a bill requiring new pool owners to pick a way to keep unsupervised children out of the water after the House voted 109-8 following a child near-drowning incident.

Seems directly hypocritical to me.

[kuronosan]

Honestly, I don't see the hypocrisy.

The law just requires people to find a way. It doesn't require people to build fences.

It's a dumb statement, sure, but poor choice of words do nut a hypocrite make.

[archibaldcrane]

His point is "just because a kid drowns doesn't mean you have to pass a law" - but he did exactly that. It's a super weird example.

[kuronosan]

Ah.

[Marootsoobutsu]

If I may champion the conservative cause, at least in an older conservative sense...

Conservatives tend to be very anti Federal power, much more than anti-government. I am fine with my state following successful models from European countries. Yes, the Federal government has more power and more money, but it is also far more unwieldy, far more susceptible to mega-corporation influence without reciprocal middle/poor response, and less responsive to small changes. Comparing America to any European country, except for maybe Russia, is so exceptionally dishonest, I'm legitimately surprised every time I see it: compare America to the European Union, and then add in a couple African, Asian, and Middle Eastern countries for fun and flavor. Then try to get things passed.

Yes, there are a lot of conservatives today who are flat out anti-government; my impulse leans that way because of the enormous emphasis in the last 75 years on Federal, rather than State or Local governments dealing with problems. Yes, sometimes-- particularly in massive, multi-state natural disasters-- the Federal government needs to help, but that shouldn't be your first go to. But to too many people, it is. Our states need independence to be Texas, and screw up a lot, and California, to screw up a lot-- but also to find the things that work for us. To find the solutions that fit us locally. If Florida has a problem with kids drowning in pools, let them fix it. If North Dakota doesn't, don't shackle them with Florida.

Jeb passing a law in Florida, and opposing it at a Federal level isn't hypocritical. It's a distinction between the obligations of a state, and the obligations of the country. The smaller the government level, the more involved and specific it's influence can be, because it can respond to changes. I'm not claiming that local government can't be corrupt as hell (my mayor in my new town, for example, is a pretty solid case), but it's a lot easier to correct that problem than it is the same problem on a federal level.

[Acevalefor]

Someone comes in and intentionally drowns 10 kids in a pool. Is the impulse still to make a law to fence the pool? Because that's what happened here. This was intentional. It was not some accident because kids were unsupervised in a pool.

[Eurell]

Someone comes in and intentionally drowns 10 kids in a pool. Is the impulse still to make a law to fence the pool? Because that's what happened here. This was intentional. It was not some accident because kids were unsupervised in a pool.

This time maybe. How many kids die because they are unsupervised with guns though? Way too fucking many.

And honestly, if we had someone drowning multiple children in a pool this fucking often, yeah, people would wanna try and fix that shit.

[Serra]

Jeb didn't make an argument about the federal vs state governments though, that was my addition. Jeb's statement was that we shouldn't overreact to a single event (which, as Archi pointed out, ignores all the previous events).

[Gredival]

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-li...r-talk/2916002