2016 USA Presidential election thread I: The warm-up

[Quicklet]

I think you guys are nitpicking a bit. You are technically correct (the best kind of correct), but to many (most?) people, they don't see the distinction between availability/affordability and administration of their health insurance. If they get their insurance off an exchange or from the medicaid expansion and think "oh I don't have Obamacare so let's get rid of it", that's a problem.

[Niiro]

I feel so bad for his kids. They barely get to see him and when they do, it's to be part of a campaign ad.

In that case they're the lucky ones.

[archibaldcrane]

Good article about Hillary's dumb attacks on Bernie's health care...ideas (since he still hasn't actually released a fucking plan lol)

http://www.vox.com/2016/1/15/1077542...esnt-trust-you

In that world — the world we actually live in — there's a strong case to be made for a pragmatic approach that respects the sensitivities of the electorate and the power of the status quo. Liberals might disagree with Clinton's true position on single-payer, but I think they would respect it. Instead, in her effort to avoid that disagreement, she's blundered into a position that no one agrees with and no one respects. Worse, it's a position that makes people think Clinton doesn't respect them.

[notorious bum]

lol no plan, how do we do this thing guys? http://www.healthcare-now.org/index....anders+S.+1782

Hilldog isn't even saying "we can't do this, yet, so let's do the establishment thing and compromise." She's actually saying "this single payer idea is bad for America, it will raise your taxes and ruin everything."

[archibaldcrane]

Well, it will raise your taxes. But yes, she's dishonestly representing his ideas because she wants to bury him/doesn't trust the electorate to see why it would be ultra-hard to pass.

I'll see if Ezra Klein will respond to be on twitter about "uh, dude, isn't this Bernie's plan?" (because it sure looks like it and I don't know why he would say that [and make me look dumb for repeating it])

[Quicklet]

The problem is Clinton doesn't campaign the way she governs. She often seems scared to tell voters what she really thinks for fear they'll disagree. Her knowledge of the painful trade-offs of governing can curdle into a paralyzing recognition of all the ways she could be attacked for taking a clear position.

This, along with her statements surrounding encryption/Snowden and her general hawkishness relative even to Obama, encapsulates why I'd have such a hard time getting behind her.

There should be plenty of good arguments for Hillary but they are doing an abysmal job of selling her over Sanders.

[archibaldcrane]

her general hawkishness relative even to Obama

Just remember that if you consider Obama fairly hawkish...maybe watch last night's Republican debate to see how terrifying it is when actual hawks are in the room. Even Bernie hasn't been as much of a pacifist/isolationist as I was expecting him to be.

[Quicklet]

Oh definitely. Unless Democrats have a massive wave election, no matter who wins I think the general political landscape looks bleak for the next four years.

[archibaldcrane]

lol no plan, how do we do this thing guys? http://www.healthcare-now.org/index....anders+S.+1782

It sounds like his plan "will be based off legislation he has proposed in the past" (including that bill) - but even very recently they've basically said "we're still working on the details".

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/13/politi...lth-care-plan/

Keene, New Hampshire (CNN)Bernie Sanders could break his pledge to release details on how he would pay for his health care plan before the Iowa caucuses, according to a top aide.

His campaign released details Wednesday of how Sanders will pay his $1 trillion dollar infrastructure plan and his $75-billion-a-year plan to make public college and universities tuition-free. But noticeably absent was his plan to pay for Medicare for all, a price tag that some estimates put at $15 trillion.

Jeff Weaver, Sanders' campaign manager, isn't saying when those numbers will be released.

"I don't have a date for that," he said earlier this week. "Not necessarily before the caucuses."

Weaver stood by his comments on Wednesday, stating that the campaign does not yet have a date for when to release the Medicare-for-all plan. He added that Sanders' health care plan would be paid for "progressively," similar to the way his previous Medicare-for-all proposals have been paid for.

[archibaldcrane]

Which is probably (gasp) smart politics on his part, the moment he proposes a multi-trillion dollar tax hike he's going to get blasted, even if the result is a net reduction in health care expenses for most people.

[Fiye]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/15/politi...ws-cruz-cover/

Ted Cruz begging for money now that he's being attack for shitting on New York

[Waraji]

I gotta say though, bravo to New York Daily front page designer.

[Marootsoobutsu]

Yeah, no. Cruz shot himself in the foot, and the face, with that "New York Values" thing. That was an astonishingly dumb thing to say.

[Andalusian girls]

New York does suck tho

[notorious bum]

Hillary thinks she's in the White House already lol

Clinton calls for new sanctions on Iran
http://thehill.com/policy/national-s...ctions-on-iran

[tyven]

Not like a republican is gonna win New York anyway. But cruz's clown supporters were super hype for his NYC dig

[Xno Kappa]

Cruz can go fuck himself with whole "New York values" schtick. Motherfucka talking shit and asking for handouts all in the same breath. Take your ass back to Canada.

[Ksandra]

I think you guys are nitpicking a bit.

Yes. If they think my in-laws issue is the word "had" versus their assumption that only poor freeloaders are connected to obamacare in any way and therefore they must not have any connection to it, then they [bg people] don't understand how poorly repubs understand it. When I use "had" I don't mean that everyone has some special kind of insurance. I mean that we all (well, those with insurance) are participating in it. By the nature of having health insurance you are either a. getting subsidies or b. helping to cover subsidies/reducing the costs of care.

[edit] In-laws don't have subsidized health care. I do not think only those with subsidies "have obamacare." Just everyone who participates in the system.

To be clearer, convo went something like this:

FiL: These people with Obamacare are just looking for handouts.

Me: Technically we are all people who have Obamacare because it is the ACA act.

FiL: I know what the ACA is! I am talking about the people who have Obamacare. They are lazy people and need to get a job.

Me: But we all have have Obamacare because it is a law...Having Obamacare doesn't mean you are poor.

Fil: No I do not! I do not get handouts! I pay for my insurance. YOU guys have Obamacare, we don't.

I gave up around there. (Especially considering I now get insurance through my employer.)

[archibaldcrane]

Sounds like neither of you get it.

[Ksandra]

Welp, Bernie's got my vote now:

Sounds like neither of you get it.

You're wrong, but thanks for that insightful comment.