2016 USA Presidential election thread I: The warm-up

[Waraji]

The whole free-healthcare free-college idea is great, but it is a complete clusterfuck to try and fix in this country with how obviously rigged pricing is for Medical procedures and services, and the continued rising costs of college and devaluation of degrees. We've been in the era of College Degree = High School Diploma, and that is neither uplifting, or inspiring.

You've all had hospital visits for the most mundane things, I know I did as a kid, and I now wince at the idea of seeing those bills arrive at my parents mailbox. There are way too many people in this country being utterly devastated by crippling debt due to emergency medical care. The only thing I wish for Christmas anymore is to have a fucking safe and healthy year ahead where I won't be having to add a car loan for a Porche in medical bills.

To be able to provide all these free-things, one must also fix the ever living shit out of our Tax code, grab the pharmaceutical and medical industries by the balls, and start forcing education institutions to start cage matching for government sponsored tuition money by way of lowering costs. None of these things I believe can get done in today's political climate, not with a Democratic president and gridlocked house/senate, and not with a regressive pro-capitalist Republican president.

[kuronosan]

Cracked me up when I increased my withholding because I owed taxes last year, had a daughter, and with education and child deductions STILL barely don't owe, and that's with decreased income.

[Churchill]

My parents had to hire a tax lawyer to deal with 2010-2015 otherwise they'd have owed something like 15K a year plus late fees and whatever else.

Most worthless poor people would probably think my parents are rich, but my mom literally works in a job that requires the least amount of education you could swing that isn't a service job.

[Ragnus]

It's feeling like Hillary is starting to get a bit desperate in her attacks. I think she's having 2008 flashbacks despite having major things like super delegates in her pocket still.

As far a Medicare for all goes, my wife used to be on Medicare due to disabilities and I was jealous as fuck of the coverage she had. We're definitely worse off now that she doesn't have it anymore despite both of us being on a "good" insurance plan.

Even if my taxes go up by $200-300 a month, I'd definitely be more prone to actually making doctor's appointments knowing that I won't get blind sided for a $80+ invoice for routine blood work.

[Gredival]

The whole free-healthcare free-college idea is great, but it is a complete clusterfuck to try and fix in this country with how obviously rigged pricing is for Medical procedures and services, and the continued rising costs of college and devaluation of degrees. We've been in the era of College Degree = High School Diploma, and that is neither uplifting, or inspiring.

Which is precisely why free-college is a terrible idea. Sure if it's free at least you don't get people going into debt for a worthless lamb skin, but the goal needs to be making those lamb skins less worthless. And free tuition does nothing for that.

But saying that some people belong in trade schools and not college is antithetical to Bernie's message of egalitarianism.

[kuronosan]

I'd rather pay an extra $300 in taxes and be fully covered than $300 in premiums and still owe $2000 in bills because reasons.

[notorious bum]

How about you actually point out false statements, then actually make arguments that either have empirical warrants or logical basis against them? Would be more productive than just soap boxing about how everyone is a neo-con shill because they don't drink the Bern kool-aid.

You would be the one taking on an "intellectually dishonest" quip that was directed toward Maroo for obvious reasons, just to get your two cents in. Keep it movin, you've already expressed enough of your expired political slant for my interest. You had your chance, homie.

[Gredival]

You would be the one taking on an "intellectually dishonest" quip that was directed toward Maroo for obvious reasons, just to get your two cents in. Keep it movin, you've already expressed enough of your expired political slant for my interest. You had your chance, homie.

No the point is that all you're doing is throwing one-liners backed up by nothing but self-confidence that you are right. That ain't how it works. This is a debate forum, not give your best impression of Mazmaz hour.

[notorious bum]

And you obviously don't read all the replies in here then, because my one-liner wasn't out of left-field. Quit trying to moderate shit that don't concern you. Keep it movin'. On to some reading material, and feel free to skip over it.

Clinton legacy, helping usher in Mexican energy privatization, is now padding her buddies' pockets, who padded hers with speaking fees:

Goldman Sachs inks joint Mexico energy, infrastructure deal - source
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0UX0EG


I also need to express my anger this morning after learning this fuckery: The Onion's being bought by Univision, owned by Haim Saban, huge supporter of Hillary Clinton & the Israeli right



Now what the hell am I going to turn to for funny satire that closely resembles reality/predicts reality?

[Gredival]

And you obviously don't read all the replies in here then, because my one-liner wasn't out of left-field. Quit trying to moderate shit that don't concern you. Keep it movin'.

It's not about whether or not it's relevant, or even accurate. It's that it's a one-liner. If you are calling someone out, actually call them out. The wording is fancier, but your post is basically the equivalent of "ur wrong." Don't say it; show it.

[BaneTheBrawler]

I concur.

[kuronosan]

I'd be angrier that the Onion was bought in the first place.

[archibaldcrane]

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...rump-and-cruz/

Good article about weird delegate math and how it affects the Trump/Cruz/Rubio paths to the nomination.

[archibaldcrane]

Also, good article about taking Bernie Sanders seriously - and that means digging into his "puppies and rainbows" policy proposals that need fleshing out.

http://www.vox.com/2016/1/18/1078477...anders-serious

[zoobernut]

Also, good article about taking Bernie Sanders seriously - and that means digging into his "puppies and rainbows" policy proposals that need fleshing out.

http://www.vox.com/2016/1/18/1078477...anders-serious

That is an interesting article and I like how it goes into the costs and consequences of Bernie's proposed policies deeper. Those things definitely need to be addressed.

[Serra]

Iowa's Republican Gov. Terry Branstad called for Ted Cruz's defeat Tuesday, in a dramatic and highly public repudiation of the Texas senator just two weeks out from the Iowa caucuses.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/19/politi...eat/index.html

[Fiye]

I disliked how Bernie dodged the question about his tax policies in the last debate using the same old "We'll tax wall street, we'll tax the banks, etc..." rhetoric. I'm not going to drop my support for Bernie for Hillary at this point (International and Domestic affairs are more important to me and might help us focus more on internal issues if we stopped worrying so much about to do.

[Marootsoobutsu]

But saying that some people belong in trade schools and not college is antithetical to Bernie's message of egalitarianism.

So much this.

I *would* like free college though, and free trade schools. But I'd like college standards for both admission and graduation to be raised. I'd like trade schools to be emphasized as valid, and often even preferable to a college degree for most occupations. Both are necessary infrastructure, and should be seen as such.

[archibaldcrane]

Seems like once you remove financial barriers, standards for college admission would necessarily go up as more students would be competing for the same spots.

[Marootsoobutsu]

Also, good article about taking Bernie Sanders seriously - and that means digging into his "puppies and rainbows" policy proposals that need fleshing out.

http://www.vox.com/2016/1/18/1078477...anders-serious

That article is fantastic.