2016 USA Presidential election thread I: The warm-up

[Waraji]

Can we not Healthcare in this thread anymore? I realize it's relevant sometimes, but often we go at it for a page and a half.

Although, I do agree that there are too many stupid people who can't associate higher taxes being good sometimes. I'm strongly considering moving to a country that has all these things figured out, that way I don't have to listen to some of these moronic debates all that often. Elon better hurry up with Mars.

[Moss]

Cruz is basically the "pure" Republican candidate. He is an incredibly smart, privileged elite who decided to exploit the Tea Party movement to gain power, so it's no wonder that people like Glenn Beck and Erick Erickson support him. He is by far the most disliked Senator in Congress though, which tells you something if not even any Republican colleagues want him to win.

The general wisdom suggests that Cruz getting the nomination would lead to an electoral disaster of Barry Goldwater proportions.

Also it bears mentioning that Cruz just seems like a weird dude:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqpHTFJO4mE

lol at the clips of him with the American History X lookin dude

[archibaldcrane]

Also saw someone mention that she stated that more people died in the civil war than all of the wars of the 20th century. Is she getting public speaking guidance from GWB?

Your concern here is the word "people" instead of Americans?

[Melena]

So I actually have a question about Bernie's health care plan. I pay about 130 a month pre tax on my plan, and my employer pays the rest. If Bernie's plan goes into implementation, does that mean I'd be losing that benefit of my employer as I would now have a single payer coverage?

[6souls]

Jesse Ventura is expected to run for President after the primaries are over.

[archibaldcrane]

Yes, you'd stop paying 130/mo and start paying 2.2% of your income for the year. Your employer would stop paying whatever their portion is and start paying 8.2% in payroll taxes.

[Salodin]

Wouldn't that mean that any family with a combined income of over 60k would be paying more under Bernies plan, assuming their plan cost the same as Melenas.

[Kurokikaze]

Wouldn't that mean that any family with a combined income of over 60k would be paying more under Bernies plan, assuming their plan cost the same as Melenas.

It's possible yes... Again, IF they are paying the same as Melenas. That's actually pretty cheap imo. Do they have deductible or copays on top of it?

Also from my understanding the 2.2% tax in on net income not gross.

[archibaldcrane]

It's possible yes... Again, IF they are paying the same as Melenas. That's actually pretty cheap imo. Do they have deductible or copays on top of it?

Also from my understanding the 2.2% tax in on net income not gross.

2.2% of your taxable income, yes.

And yes, in theory, this would cover 100% of your medical expenses in total, not just premiums.

[archibaldcrane]

If Bernie got everything he wanted, your marginal tax rates would look like this:



http://www.vox.com/2016/1/22/1081479...ders-tax-rates

[archibaldcrane]

It's kinda wild that even in Bernie's plan, your 75,301st dollar earned is taxed more than your 249,999th.

[Marootsoobutsu]

Wouldn't that mean that any family with a combined income of over 60k would be paying more under Bernies plan, assuming their plan cost the same as Melenas.

My wife and I (well under 60k/year) would be paying more under Bernie's plan than we pay now, as would her employer.

Sanders dropping knowledge on tax increases. Unfortunately most people are too stupid to understand how not paying $4000 a year to insurance companies but paying it instead to a national plan is equivalence at worst.

Every large-nation Single Payer Plan has gone over-budget every single year. 8.2% + 2.6% will be 9% and 3% within 3 years, and likely a combined 15% (probably 18%) within 10. Never underestimate the power of Politicians to under-estimate federal costs, or the power of Bureaucracy to inflate it. And people will *still* want a private plan to cover the many things the Single Player Plan won't cover, like many of the nations in Europe have.

My objection isn't to the idea of reining in health care costs. My objection is that federal programs have no obligation to stay within their budgets, and then demand more money later to cover their inefficiencies. Single Payer Plans work moderately well in very small nations; they are horribly inefficient in large nations. We're a HUGE nation.

[Melena]

So looking at my paystub, currently my medical would go down about 3 dollars every 2 weeks, but once I reach top pay grade, i'll be paying a little more, and if I promote out and move up, will be a big jump. Of course my wife will go from 100% covered to paying again for hers.

[kuronosan]

My wife and I (well under 60k/year) would be paying more under Bernie's plan than we pay now, as would her employer.



Every large-nation Single Payer Plan has gone over-budget every single year. 8.2% + 2.6% will be 9% and 3% within 3 years, and likely a combined 15% (probably 18%) within 10. Never underestimate the power of Politicians to under-estimate federal costs, or the power of Bureaucracy to inflate it. And people will *still* want a private plan to cover the many things the Single Player Plan won't cover, like many of the nations in Europe have.

My objection isn't to the idea of reining in health care costs. My objection is that federal programs have no obligation to stay within their budgets, and then demand more money later to cover their inefficiencies. Single Payer Plans work moderately well in very small nations; they are horribly inefficient in large nations. We're a HUGE nation.

Oh darn. Guess we're better off with people dying and going bankrupt.

[FNH]

I'm starting to accept that I will be feeling the Bern come Nov. I'm in agreement with most of the big ticket issues, and the ones I'm not aren't a deal breaker. Plus there is no likable Repub(yaya "there's never a likable repub"). The thing I'm concerned about before fully committing is who he is likely to pair up with. He is no spring chicken and I don't want him to pull a William Henry Harrison and leave us with some asshole behind the wheel.

[Waraji]

Oh darn. Guess we're better off with people dying and going bankrupt.

I find this the more important aspect of a single payer system where medical service providers will be under a magnifying glass all across the country with the government reigning in ludicrous price gouging on services.

[Marootsoobutsu]

Oh darn. Guess we're better off with people dying and going bankrupt.

Yes, because that is clearly the only other option.

[archibaldcrane]

I'm starting to accept that I will be feeling the Bern come Nov.

Uh, Bernie isn't going to be around in November.

I find this the more important aspect of a single payer system where medical service providers will be under a magnifying glass all across the country

Which is exactly why this won't work. Berries plan requires huge cuts in reimbursement for basically all medical services, meaning the number and power of groups who will lobby against it (and simply complain to their friends, families, neighbors and patients) will be insurmountable.

People like and trust doctors way more than politicians.

[FNH]

Uh, Bernie isn't going to be around in November.

.

Oh, then maybe O'Malley.

[Fiye]

People already bitch the fuck about Obamacare. I'm pretty sure people can't bitch anymore than they already are.

Not saying that insurance companies being kicked out of a job won't lead to a huge flail where-as they'll try lobby their way into the hearts of our representatives. If people really want a single payer system it'd have to start with bernie but it wouldn't happen until at least 2020 if people votes representatives who'd actually support it. Lobbying be damned.

And even then, that's not taking in account all the paperwork needed to get such a thing drafted up and fine tuned to a point where it'd work. Getting medical costs in the US down to a reasonable amount.