2016 USA Presidential election thread I: The warm-up

[archibaldcrane]

Center-right Democratic Senator eh?

Fuck it, just read this: http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/h...on-is-liberal/

[archibaldcrane]

I mean shit, people take those "iSideWith" polls and get 94% Bernie, and are somehow blind to the 91% Hillary they also get.

[Tyrath]

Most people I have seen had a much larger difference than 3 points.

[Ksandra]

That's questionable. Sure, on the really easy stuff she can give lip service while campaigning, but is it really believable that her foreign policy is going to be any better than Bush/Obama, that she'll make any meaningful economic reforms, or that she'll be a better advocate for progressive issues than an Elizabeth Warren or a Bernie Sanders? She is a shrewd politician, but she has always been a center-right Democrat since becoming a senator. Again, she's better than almost any Republican that is in the race this cycle, but it's not exactly a high threshold to cross.

I expect a lot from her actually because she's been there before for eight years. She knows exactly how it works and what to do to get things done. You forgot that with Hillary comes Bill.
I expect to see a lot of things I like come out of her, and some things I don't like, which is basically what happened with Obama.

[notorious bum]

Wanting to "erase" Iran from the face of the Earth is so lib, ya'll.

[Quicklet]

Um, did you really lump Bush and Obama's foreign policy together?

THEY BOTH USED DRONES GUISE THEY ARE THE SAME

get the fuck out

Oh please. We are almost 15 years after 9/11 and the best thing you can say about Obama's foreign policy is that he didn't fuck up as badly as Bush. Putting aside the issues of drones and the problems of transparency and consolidation of power by the executive branch, there are still the messes of Libya, Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan. There is the embarrassment of letting Russia carve out huge chunks of Ukraine with minimal repercussions. And if you want to argue that most of those problems are Bush's fault and not Obama's, I'll grant that Bush has responsibility for much of it, but when it comes to Syria and especially Libya, you can't argue that Obama doesn't bear a lot of responsibility for the outcome of those situations.

The best thing to come out of Obama's foreign policy might be the Iran deal if it works out, but we're not going to be able to judge that for years -- meanwhile we're being told that it could be years or decades of dealing with ISIS in the Middle East after the Obama administration was so ready to topple Assad without considering who was going to replace him, or telling us that they were "junior league" and not a big concern.

I expect a lot from her actually because she's been there before for eight years. She knows exactly how it works and what to do to get things done. You forgot that with Hillary comes Bill.
I expect to see a lot of things I like come out of her, and some things I don't like, which is basically what happened with Obama.

Center-right Democratic Senator eh?

Fuck it, just read this: http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/h...on-is-liberal/

She is perfectly qualified for the presidency, and the potential Supreme Court nominations alone are enough to realize she's better than anyone in the Republican field, but you're going to have a hell of a time convincing me she's going to seriously address the systemic economic inequalities or the absolutely disgusting atmosphere of fearmongering that pervades this country right now. I can listen to something from Sen. Warren and I don't have to question whether or not she'll follow through with her positions. Everything from Hillary just feels so carefully crafted to follow whatever is polling well at the time.

[Kachiko]

Because it's a spectacle and that gets viewers.

Then how do you explain the lack of Planned Parenthood coverage? Not as good of ratings a Trump? Sure. Only worth a ~11 minutes of coverage, in the last 10 days, between the three Network Nightly News and Morning shows?

For shame.

And if you want to argue that most of those problems are Bush's fault and not Obama's, I'll grant that Bush has responsibility for much of it, but when it comes to Syria and especially Libya, you can't argue that Obama doesn't bear a lot of responsibility for the outcome of those situations.

The best thing to come out of Obama's foreign policy might be the Iran deal if it works out, but we're not going to be able to judge that for years -- meanwhile we're being told that it could be years or decades of dealing with ISIS in the Middle East after the Obama administration was so ready to topple Assad without considering who was going to replace him, or telling us that they were "junior league" and not a big concern.

She is perfectly qualified for the presidency, and the potential Supreme Court nominations alone are enough to realize she's better than anyone in the Republican field, but you're going to have a hell of a time convincing me she's going to seriously address the systemic economic inequalities or the absolutely disgusting atmosphere of fearmongering that pervades this country right now. I can listen to something from Sen. Warren and I don't have to question whether or not she'll follow through with her positions. Everything from Hillary just feels so carefully crafted to follow whatever is polling well at the time.

I think, after seven years, Obama owns the foreign policy choices he's decided to make. The thing about Iran is that you can actually predict, with pointed certainty, given Iran's history of breaking deals, that they will break the deal and that Obama won't do a thing; it's just not how Obama operates. He only comes down hard on things that directly threaten his power, and he'll be long gone before Iran can pose a direct threat to said power.

As for Hillary, she may be a serviceable President, but can anyone clearly state what the hell she stands for? She comes across as more artificial than Lt. Commander Data. She'll say anything she can, to obtain the power she feels she deserves. Maybe you think that's the operatus modi of politicians, but if we let them get away with it, then we're the ones to blame, and deserve what we get.

As for Warren, she also doesn't have to actually follow through on anything she actually says. She's in the political safe zone; she's not running, doesn't have the power to actually change things, and doesn't have to get the peoples buy off on the things she says. She'll attract those that agree, with her thoughts, but that's about as far as she goes. At least Bernie Sanders has the gumption to actually run for President, on his true beliefs.

[Marootsoobutsu]

As a Christian conservative, I hope Hillary wins the nomination. Not because I particularly agree with her (I agree with Archi that she has a pretty strong liberal record), but because she is by far the best politician on either side, and if it's not Jeb for the Republicans, I'm probably voting for Hillary, because while I think everyone have the potential to screw things up even more royally than they are now, she has the best opportunity to at least get both sides of the aisle talking to each other. Bill, more than anything else, wanted to be liked-- it's what made him a frankly very good President. Hillary, more than anything else, wants to be respected... and I think that will be enough to at least make her average.

Jeb, I think, also has the potential to reach across the aisle, particularly because he's much closer to the Democrats on a massively dividing issue-- immigration-- than Republicans are, and honestly... it's the one issue that I think Democrats are mostly right on. His brother was also pretty much right on it (or closer than most Republicans), but man the Republicans fought him, and then the Democrats wouldn't give him a win in his last two years. Seriously... there are a number of things the Democrats in Congress passed for Obama that they blocked/wouldn't pass for Bush... and the Republicans have definitely done the same to Obama.

I don't care if we go in the wrong direction right now, as long as we start TALKING again. If we're talking, we can start corrective action to either strengthen or weaken policies that are working (but not fast enough), or not working (and need shut down). If we're not talking, then... ugh. Even things that are nakedly broken just sit and rot. Hillary will change to be what she thinks America thinks it wants or needs, and she is able and willing to talk with Republican leadership-- that's better than most politicians on either side of the aisle have been since Bush, and she'll be better about keeping the Democrats in line than Bush was at keeping the Republicans in line.

[tyven]

You guys we all voting for Rand or what?

[AidenCarby]

Trumps got my vote

[kuronosan]

I don't want a President whose focus is on getting respect. I want a President with real conviction who's also willing to push progressive issues.

I don't see that in Hillary.

[BaneTheBrawler]

My parents are pretty convinced Hillary is un-electable. Too much baggage. Given that their generation is still the pander-to block, I'm not particularly inclined to disagree.

[Salodin]

Don't forget she's a woman. People act like Obama won on his merits alone, but frankly he got many more votes then not simply because of the color of his skin.

[arus2001]

Imagine the lulz if Hilary ran with Bill as VP, she swears in, then immediately resigns (or worse).

[zoobernut]

Imagine the lulz if Hilary ran with Bill as VP, she swears in, then immediately resigns (or worse).

I just woke up and it has been a long time since I was in high school but aren't there laws to cover such loopholes so that doesn't happen? Wouldn't the presidency go to the next person in line after the vp? (I think that is the secretary of state no?)

[Ksandra]

I don't want a President whose focus is on getting respect. I want a President with real conviction who's also willing to push progressive issues.

I don't see that in Hillary.

I would love Sanders to win, but that just isn't going to happen. I don't even want him to get the nomination, as that guarantees the repubs the win.

Hillary is not my first choice, but I definitely don't think she is as bad as you all are making her out to be.

[Sho]

I don't want a President whose focus is on getting respect. I want a President with real conviction who's also willing to push progressive issues.

I don't see that in Hillary.

No one right now has that "conviction" you are looking for. Trump is on the right path, but fails because as of current it's all spectacle on the level of P.T. Barnum & Steve Jobs. Don't be fooled.

Maroot's response a few posts above you holds the correct answer -- we need someone who's willing to reach across the isle and make concessions to get bills passed. This potentially can come from either side of the isle, but it must happen.

As for Hilary and foreign policy, she would be far more critical decisive, and hard nosed than Obama for sure. There's not much however that can be done than tighten up on the fight against ISIS and other radicals. Russia will be a touchy subject just like China, and America will dance around both for some time to come.

Hilary would definitely whip the shit out of the Democratic base into line, something that has been needed since Jimmy Carter's time.

[Ksandra]

I expect Hillary to send Bill out related to foreign stuff. I think some forget that the world loved, and I mean loved, Bill. When I went to Egypt in 2000 they had posters of him the same way we had posters of Nsync. If she's smart, she will allow him to try and bridge ties.

[Galkaeater]

he was in the simpsons when it was good

[Eurell]

Don't forget she's a woman. People act like Obama won on his merits alone, but frankly he got many more votes then not simply because of the color of his skin.

Everything I ever read is that he lost many more votes than he gained by being black.