2016 USA Presidential election thread I: The warm-up

[dasva]

"And now we have Photo ID, and I think Photo ID is going to make a little bit of a difference as well"

http://gawker.com/wisconsin-republic...out-1769345638

LOL

That really sure I can take an article that calls ID suppression seriously...

[kisada]

photo ID, the secret weapon against hillary clinton

[Kyte]

It is possible to be pro-life and still understand that people may not agree with you and have the right to choose.

In fact, this is very much a sane way to approach the issue.

Further, the fact that our politics has gotten to the point that isn't considered to be sane by default is pretty sad.

(None of this has to do with Hillary's stance on anything, more just an observation.)

What you just described is being pro-choice. Pro-choice is not "pro-abortion."

[Churchill]

Cut it out.

Is this a full house joke

[Dimmauk]

Kind of excited to see how the Panama Papers shakes things up. Hillary's received speaker money from deutsche bank which has been called out by the Panama Papers. On top of the support Hillary had for a Free Trade agreement with Panama back in 2011 (Which Sanders opposed).

[Quicklet]

That really sure I can take an article that calls ID suppression seriously...

Photo ID itself isn't necessarily bad. The problem is restricting what you consider acceptable photo ID in a way that make it much more difficult for certain segments of the population, say, college students and poor people, to vote. For a party that's constantly talking about how big government is bad, creating a bureaucratic mess to solve a problem that doesn't exist makes the real purpose of such laws rather transparent.

[Rooney]

My favorite part is when they require ID, but then close down places where you can get said ID. Like the one office in Wisconsin, that's only open on the 5th Wednesday of every month. Last year it was literally only open for ~32 hours.

[Zetanio]

I think receiving money from Deutsche doesn't indict her into being involved. Whether other information ties her to it directly, we'll see. Her support of the FTA's is also a tenuous link at best.

[Dantrag]

Bernies Speech, all I see is $$$ (from where?) + Clearly higher taxes. So many promises, and supposedly the rich 1% are going to pay for all of it. (somehow)

That one website that was listed about each of their tax plans, my taxes would go up around 8-10k/year :/ That's pretty painful for a family of 3 with a house and 2 cars.

[dasva]

Photo ID itself isn't necessarily bad. The problem is restricting what you consider acceptable photo ID in a way that make it much more difficult for certain segments of the population, say, college students and poor people, to vote. For a party that's constantly talking about how big government is bad, creating a bureaucratic mess to solve a problem that doesn't exist makes the real purpose of such laws rather transparent.

I can buy that train of thought if it's happening. But government photo IDs were generally considered acceptable in these things are easier if annoying to get than actual voting (at least in the states I have) and cheap (though really should make them "free" if they are being required). Which reminds me I need to renew mine... why they expire based on dates and not idk you looking different than your photo is beyond me

My favorite part is when they require ID, but then close down places where you can get said ID. Like the one office in Wisconsin, that's only open on the 5th Wednesday of every month. Last year it was literally only open for ~32 hours.

Wait can you not get them at the DMV in Wisconsin?

[Minions]

The only problem I have with Bernie about this is I have seen no explanation of how he plans to close down tax havens in other countries. He voted against legislation that removed one (or two) of the 3 criteria that he listed for a Tax Haven. Panama now exchanges information whenever it is requested, and that kinda invalidates bank secrecy at the same time. The fact of the matter is, there are lots of ways in the USA to keep your money with little not no penalties.

Bernie seems to have tons of ideas about what he does not support, or why. He however seems to often lack an alternative, or often has very shallow depth when asked questions regarding his current policies.

[kisada]

fake it till you make it.

[Kyte]

this is in contrast with a woman whose plan for defeating ISIS could have been written by an underwear gnome

[Andalusian girls]

have you seen literally any debate between them where foreign policy comes up

one sounds like, well, a secretary of state, the other sounds like a freshman political science minor whose syntax is limited to a noun a verb and 'i voted against Iraq in 2003'

but no, it is probably safer to invalidate the entirety of her wonkish campaign because of a single image on a website founded on communicative minimalism

[Salodin]

Will you be available during the next debate to join Buchar? I want to see live comments on why Bernie is burning down.

[Fiye]

Its not like Hillary keeps on saying 'I made a mistake by voting for iraq'

[Andalusian girls]

from the last major debate where the candidates were asked about ISIS

Look, I think we are readier than we used to be, but it’s a constant effort that has to be undertaken to make sure we are as ready as we need to be. We have made a lot of improvements in our domestic security since 9/11, and we have been able to foil and prevent attacks, yet we see the terrible attack in San Bernardino and know that we haven’t done enough.

So we have to go after this both abroad and at home. We have to go after terrorist networks, predominantly ISIS — that’s not the only one, but let’s focus on that for a minute. We have to lead a coalition that will take back territory from ISIS. That is principally an American-led air campaign that we are now engaged in.

We have to support the fighters on the ground, principally the Arabs and the Kurds who are willing to stand up and take territory back from Raqqa to Ramadi. We have to continue to work with the Iraqi army so that they are better prepared to advance on some of the other strongholds inside Iraq, like Mosul, when they are able to do so. And we have to cut off the flow of foreign funding and foreign fighters.

And we have to take on ISIS online. They are a sophisticated purveyor of propaganda, a celebrator of violence, an instigator of attacks using their online presence.

Here at home, we’ve got to do a better job coordinating between federal, state, and local law enforcement. We need the best possible intelligence not only from our own sources, but from sources overseas, that can be a real-time fusion effort to get information where it’s needed.

But the final thing I want to say about this is the following. You know, after 9/11, one of the efforts that we did in New York was if you see something or hear something suspicious, report it. And we need to do that throughout the country.

But we need to understand that American Muslims are on the front line of our defense. They are more likely to know what’s happening in their families and their communities, and they need to feel not just invited, but welcomed within the American society. So when somebody like Donald Trump and others…
(APPLAUSE)

… stirs up the demagoguery against American Muslims, that hurts us at home. It’s not only offensive; it’s dangerous. And the same goes for overseas, where we have to put together a coalition of Muslim nations. I know how to do that. I put together the coalition that imposed the sanctions on Iran that got us to the negotiating table to put a lid on their nuclear weapons program.
(APPLAUSE)

And you don’t go tell Muslim nations you want them to be part of a coalition when you have a leading candidate for president of the United States who insults their religion.
So this has to be looked at overall, and we have to go at it from every possible angle

Let me just say this. What a president of the United States has got to do — and what is his or her major, I think, responsibility — is to, A, make certain that we keep our people safe, that we work with allies around the world to protect protect democratic values. That we do all that we can to create a world of peace and prosperity.

I voted against the war in Iraq because I listened very carefully to what President Bush and Vice President Cheney had to say and I didn’t believe them. And if you go to my Web site, berniesanders.com, what you find is not only going to help lead the opposition to that war, but much of what I feared would happen when I spoke on the floor of the House, in fact, did happen in terms of the instability that occurred.

Now I think an area in kind of a vague way, or not so vague, where Secretary Clinton and I disagree is the area of regime change. Look, the truth is that a powerful nation like the United States, certainly working with our allies, we can overthrow dictators all over the world.

And God only knows Saddam Hussein was a brutal dictator. We could overthrow Assad tomorrow if we wanted to. We got rid of Gadhafi. But the point about foreign policy is not just to know that you can overthrow a terrible dictator, it’s to understand what happens the day after.

And in Libya, for example, the United States, Secretary Clinton, as secretary of state, working with some other countries, did get rid of a terrible dictator named Gadhafi. But what happened is a political vacuum developed. ISIS came in, and now occupies significant territory in Libya, and is now prepared, unless we stop them, to have a terrorist foothold.

But this is nothing new. This has gone on 50 or 60 years where the United States has been involved in overthrowing governments. Mossadegh back in 1953. Nobody knows who Mossadegh was, democratically-elected prime minister of Iran. He was overthrown by British and American interests because he threatened oil interests of the British. And as a result of that, the shah of Iran came in, terrible dictator. The result of that, you had the Iranian Revolution coming in, and that is where we are today. Unintended consequences.

So I believe as president I will look very carefully about unintended consequences. I will do everything I can to make certain that the United States and our brave men and women in the military do not get bogged down in perpetual warfare in the Middle East.

for those of you who could stomach the tldr, which of these was a substantive outline of a strategy to extinguish the Daesh state and which was simply the regurgitation of liberal orthodoxy regarding foreign intervention? a bile that would be more understandable if he believed we had no moral or geopolitical imperative to 'regime change' Daesh, but as he has previously said he supports Obama's air campaign against them that is clearly not the case, and the matter appears more of his demagogic fluff where he can inflame the passions of those in ideological solidarity while providing a substanceless or irrelevant position.

[Andalusian girls]

it is as though

we should defeat ISIS.
how would you defeat ISIS?
i don't believe in regime change.

[Fiye]

But the final thing I want to say about this is the following. You know, after 9/11, one of the efforts that we did in New York was if you see something or hear something suspicious, report it. And we need to do that throughout the country.

Sounds a lot like Broken Window policing. I wonder how that's been going for New York.

We have to support the fighters on the ground, principally the Arabs and the Kurds who are willing to stand up and take territory back from Raqqa to Ramadi. We have to continue to work with the Iraqi army so that they are better prepared to advance on some of the other strongholds inside Iraq, like Mosul, when they are able to do so. And we have to cut off the flow of foreign funding and foreign fighters.

http://theweek.com/articles/589924/brief-history-isis

ISIS was born out of the U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003. When U.S. administrators, under Paul Bremer, decided to "de-Baathify" the Iraqi civil and military services, hundreds of thousands of Sunnis formerly loyal to Saddam Hussein were left without a job — and they were mad. Al Qaeda chose to capitalize on their anger and established al Qaeda in Iraq (AQI) to wage an insurgency against U.S. troops in Iraq (Saddam was secular, but his intelligence and military supporters were able to make common cause with the jihadis of al Qaeda).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1670089.stm

The organisation [Al Qaeda] grew out of the network of Arab volunteers who had gone to Afghanistan in the 1980s to fight under the banner of Islam against Soviet Communism.

During the anti-Soviet jihad Bin Laden and his fighters received American and Saudi funding. Some analysts believe Bin Laden himself had security training from the CIA.

I kind of want to go with the guy who has a new idea.

[archibaldcrane]

James Hansen, who is essentially the godfather of modern climate change science, is roasting Bernie for trying to fearmonger against Indian Point to get it closed down.

http://epillinois.org/news/2016/4/6/...t-indian-point