2016 USA Presidential election thread I: The warm-up

[kuronosan]

I gotta say I'm amazed the moderators are digging their heels.

[Salodin]

Wow did y'all get that changewalmart.com commercial? Holyyyy shit

[Byrthnoth]

(as much as any GOP debate).

whoa now. Even if they attacked with the same vitriol, at least neither of them are supporting tax plans that would add >10 trillion dollars to the national debt.

These moderators keep pointing out things like, "You've said you're going to make it so we're no longer the world's leader in incarceration, which implies you will release at least 500k inmates. How would you accomplish this considering the vast majority of prisoners are not in federal custody?" to Sanders, and he keeps sliding on by them with bluster. Every time Sanders has been directly asked a question about how he would actually accomplish any of the points of his platform, he has failed to respond. They're pretty much equally evasive about the darker parts of their decades of legislative history.

[Sho]

whoa now. Even if they attacked with the same vitriol, at least neither of them are supporting tax plans that would add >10 trillion dollars to the national debt.

These moderators keep pointing out things like, "You've said you're going to make it so we're no longer the world's leader in incarceration, which implies you will release at least 500k inmates. How would you accomplish this considering the vast majority of prisoners are not in federal custody?" to Sanders, and he keeps sliding on by them with bluster. Every time Sanders has been directly asked a question about how he would actually accomplish any of the points of his platform, he has failed to respond. They're pretty much equally evasive about the darker parts of their decades of legislative history.

I agree with that 100%. I was just looking at it objectively and putting myself in a typical conservative's shoes. I think Wolf and co. are doing a good job -- they are bringing out the arguments that both sides have been making in the media, sans debate.

As for Sanders I think now is the time when he needs to put some meat on the bones of his arguments and his speeches. He can't get beyond NY if he doesn't specify what exactly he'll do in his platform.

[Minions]

Bernies a time traveler confirmed. Hes going to change things yesterday.

[Sho]

Also I find it funny that Clinton is talking about fighting Big Coal, but her plans up to date doesn't address combating fossil fuel lobbyists, which hold great power on the Hill when it comes to climate change. That and the fact that she supports fracking.

Reality is that Clinton doesn't have much fight in climate change. Just sounds good coming from a Dem.

[Minions]

Also I find it funny that Clinton is talking about fighting Big Coal, but her plans up to date doesn't address combating fossil fuel lobbyists, which hold great power on the Hill when it comes to climate change. That and the fact that she supports fracking.

Reality is that Clinton doesn't have much fight in climate change. Just sounds good coming from a Dem.

It's more realistic than Bernies cold turkey approach.... Shit works in small steps whether he likes it or not. Shit won't change overnight.

Bernie said Doo doo twice; +1 point to him.

[Byrthnoth]

FTR, if anyone wants a science check on this, fracking is not really the problem. Deep wastewater disposal is the problem, and fracking (as one of the many natural gas recovery techniques) generates something like 10% of the wastewater disposed in this way. So when someone campaigns specifically against fracking (as Sanders is doing) then even if they were successful they'd still just be basically burning a strawman.

[Sho]

It's more realistic than Bernies cold turkey approach.... Shit works in small steps whether he likes it or not. Shit won't change overnight.

It is more realistic. However, Clinton just doesn't care about climate change is my argument (even more so that she got to see Obama up in arms fighting Big Coal during his term). For Sanders, this is a burning desire of his to see to action.

[Thunder]

wow cool, just tuned in and bernie got the, "how is phasing nuclear energy out + wanting to fight climate change not retarded?"

judging from the thread this has been happening all night

and bernie's not answering it

not feeling the bern tbh

[BerenTebogo]

It is more realistic. However, Clinton just doesn't care about climate change is my argument (even more so that she got to see Obama up in arms fighting Big Coal during his term). For Sanders, this is a burning desire of his to see to action.

I'd rather someone not care about something than someone care about it ignorantly and make shit worse in an effort to make shit better.

Road to hell, good intentions, etc.

[zoobernut]

I really liked the idea of Bernie at first but the longer it goes on the less I am feeling it. I really do appreciate his message overall and desire to break up banks and get money out of politics etc. however I just don't think he can actually get anything done.

I also don't like his stance on nuclear power but I also don't like Hillary's stance on fracking.

[Gredival]

I think CNN has figured out the best way to gift these debates to HRC isn't to try bully Bernie, it's to make him try explain his platform that was built to inspire and not to produce any actual change.

[Sho]

FTR, if anyone wants a science check on this, fracking is not really the problem. Deep wastewater disposal is the problem, and fracking (as one of the many natural gas recovery techniques) generates something like 10% of the wastewater disposed in this way. So when someone campaigns specifically against fracking (as Sanders is doing) then even if they were successful they'd still just be basically burning a strawman.

This actually ties into my argument -- Obama tried to change up the rules concerning wastewater disposal, but it was struck down in federal court last year. Combine this with Clinton's promotion of fracking to the world as Secretary (as well as NY ending fracking in 2014), and now you see a Clinton who doesn't have much fight in the matter. She would rather the idea of climate change fade away.

[Sho]

I'd rather someone not care about something than someone care about it ignorantly and make shit worse in an effort to make shit better.

Road to hell, good intentions, etc.

I would like it if he just had a solution on paper. You can shout from the rafters on something for so long before you take a dive. Sanders is just talking, which is making me kinda sad.

Sander's stance on nuclear power is pretty retarded, however.

[Minions]

What the hell is going on with Bernie... Is he having a seizure? He keeps making these awful faces.

[Salodin]

The audience is very rambunctious.

[Byrthnoth]

Israel vs. Palestine debate is Bernie showing off how little he has to plan for the general.

[Thunder]

What the hell is going on with Bernie... Is he having a seizure? He keeps making these awful faces.

his "CMON LET ME TALK" and "CMON THIS BITCH WONT SHUT UP" faces are really pathetic

but very funny

[Minions]

Israel vs. Palestine debate is Bernie showing off how little he has to plan for the general.

Sanders is screwing himself by throwing punches. Every time he throws a punch/quick jab, his forfeits his time and gives it back to Clinton for a response.... It seems though he doesn't have answers to a lot of the questions. He has "generalizations". He needs to start speaking specifically to show he has a plan, instead of throwing jabs, or focusing on repeating the same thing over and over..... By repeating the same thing over and over it is showing me he lacks depth on the subjects.... (Which is no surprise as this is about Foreign Policy, one of his weakest subjects)