2016 USA Presidential election thread I: The warm-up

[Sho]

Double.

[kuronosan]

Creates something of a slippery slope -- yes there are tangible reasons to not vote for her.

However, if you are a Democrat or a liberal, can you really see yourself throwing away your vote by voting to the Right or not voting at all? Just because your candidate didn't win?

A better, cleaner question would be: "Are Trump, Cruz or Kasich (or Romney) better options than Clinton in this election cycle?"



I hope for this as well. He can still send out his message of hope and change, and try to cajole his constituents into voting for Clinton.

There's a measure of unfairness to this statement though. I'm not a Democrat. I'm an Independent. Say I really, really believed in voting for Republicans this election cycle. Does that make me a bad person? Are we really that polarized? For example, say Anda is a Republican (not sure if he is or not) and he refuses to vote for Cruz. That's a win?

If I vote for Hillary, which I likely will anyway, it should be because I want a continuation and improvement of our current situation. Not because there's a chance it could get worse. That's a HORRIBLE reason to vote for Hillary and is the main reason I think most are voting for her. It baffles me that these are the best candidates we can muster up and each is inherently flawed from the gate:

Trump: Anti-establishment Dem in GOP clothing, not suited for office.
Cruz: Anti-athiestic nut who no one likes, not suited for office.
Kasich: Looks good on paper, horrible in practice. Nope.
Hillary: Compulsive pathological liar and victimizing criminal. "Best" option.
Sanders: Great ideas, great record, and great energy. Broken record.

This entire cycle is fucking retarded.

To my credit, it's not about not voting for Hillary if "my candidate" doesn't win. Bernie best espouses my views. Hillary is the next best option. It's simply logical to vote for her.

Unfortunately, it feels like that moment when you know throwing a grenade into a building will kill innocent children but OBL is inside and you can't afford to fuck it up.

[thetruepandagod]

"Are Trump, Cruz or Kasich (or Romney) better options than Clinton in this election cycle?"

The dream stays alive.

[Sho]

The dream stays alive.

It does! If there's a floor fight that goes beyond 3 ballots, Kasich's star will only rise.

[Tyche]

We'll probably look at Bernie's race years from now in retrospect being flawed only in the fact that he let Clinton get under his skin, instead of co-existing with her and speaking more of his time attacking the GOP across the isle as the "real" Big Money interests.

I didn't feel like either candidate got under the skin of the other. This was not a malicious or contentious primary in the least. If anything, we will look at this race in the future as a model of how you should run a primary. Compared to 2008, Bernie and Hillary were best bros. this was probably the most friendly primary of my lifetime.

[Sho]

There's a measure of unfairness to this statement though. I'm not a Democrat. I'm an Independent. Say I really, really believed in voting for Republicans this election cycle. Does that make me a bad person? Are we really that polarized? For example, say Anda is a Republican (not sure if he is or not) and he refuses to vote for Cruz. That's a win?

If I vote for Hillary, which I likely will anyway, it should be because I want a continuation and improvement of our current situation. Not because there's a chance it could get worse. That's a HORRIBLE reason to vote for Hillary and is the main reason I think most are voting for her. It baffles me that these are the best candidates we can muster up and each is inherently flawed from the gate:

Trump: Anti-establishment Dem in GOP clothing, not suited for office.
Cruz: Anti-athiestic nut who no one likes, not suited for office.
Kasich: Looks good on paper, horrible in practice. Nope.
Hillary: Compulsive pathological liar and victimizing criminal. "Best" option.
Sanders: Great ideas, great record, and great energy. Broken record.

This entire cycle is fucking retarded.

To my credit, it's not about not voting for Hillary if "my candidate" doesn't win. Bernie best espouses my views. Hillary is the next best option. It's simply logical to vote for her.

Unfortunately, it feels like that moment when you know throwing a grenade into a building will kill innocent children but OBL is inside and you can't afford to fuck it up.

You know what? You're right -- assuming you are Democrat on the outset was unfair, indeed. I apologize. If it matters, I too am Independent, as well (shift left on social agendas, right on fiscal agenda & foreign policy).

However, I did also append the word liberal as an alternative to Democrat for this very purpose -- anyone here could assume this much seeing your arguments in favor for what Sanders stands for ideologically.

There's actually more to Trump, Hillary, and Sanders than what you stated:

Trump: Liberal playing 3D chess with the media, his constituents, and his opponents to win. (Check out the article and you'll understand). No real detailed plans for his slew of adjectives. Still not suitable for office.

Hillary: Focus group tested candidate who has been scheming for the 2016 race since she installed Schultz as DNC chair after losing to Obama in 2008. Benghazi is a non-issue to most voters on the left as they vote down the ballot anyways. Pragmatic and safest choice to protect the gains Obama has made over the last 8 years. Maximum foreign policy experience during a time where Obama has been snubbed left and right by his allies and enemies.

Sanders: Literally became the voice of the youth of the Democratic party -- youth who wants to see their party become the Progressive ideology that was once promised to them in 2008 by Obama, and again promised now if Sanders won.

I didn't feel like either candidate got under the skin of the other. This was not a malicious or contentious primary in the least. If anything, we will look at this race in the future as a model of how you should run a primary. Compared to 2008, Bernie and Hillary were best bros. this was probably the most friendly primary of my lifetime.

This is true as well. I was told the story of how the Dukakis campaign schemed to bring down Biden in the 88 primaries.

The 1992 primaries was relatively clean as well however, mainly because everyone thought the Dems would be swept by the GOP due to the Gulf War.

[Sho]

Fack, more doubles.

[Cjskater]

There's a measure of unfairness to this statement though. I'm not a Democrat. I'm an Independent. Say I really, really believed in voting for Republicans this election cycle. Does that make me a bad person? Are we really that polarized? For example, say Anda is a Republican (not sure if he is or not) and he refuses to vote for Cruz. That's a win?

If I vote for Hillary, which I likely will anyway, it should be because I want a continuation and improvement of our current situation. Not because there's a chance it could get worse. That's a HORRIBLE reason to vote for Hillary and is the main reason I think most are voting for her. It baffles me that these are the best candidates we can muster up and each is inherently flawed from the gate:

Trump: Anti-establishment Dem in GOP clothing, not suited for office.
Cruz: Anti-athiestic nut who no one likes, not suited for office.
Kasich: Looks good on paper, horrible in practice. Nope.
Hillary: Compulsive pathological liar and victimizing criminal. "Best" option.
Sanders: Great ideas, great record, and great energy. Broken record.

This entire cycle is fucking retarded.

To my credit, it's not about not voting for Hillary if "my candidate" doesn't win. Bernie best espouses my views. Hillary is the next best option. It's simply logical to vote for her.

Unfortunately, it feels like that moment when you know throwing a grenade into a building will kill innocent children but OBL is inside and you can't afford to fuck it up.

You could always vote Libertarian. If they get 10%? of the vote in this general they get funding and access to all 50 states next election. It's still throwing your vote away (at this point) but it could have some positive effects still. Plus Libertarians are mostly pretty cool, they're the best of rep/dem in one imo.

[dasva]

You could always vote Libertarian. If they get 10%? of the vote in this general they get funding and access to all 50 states next election. It's still throwing your vote away (at this point) but it could have some positive effects still. Plus Libertarians are mostly pretty cool, they're the best of rep/dem in one imo.

Definitely cool people. The real voice against excessive government that the reps say they are. Side note just found out my of my old shipmates is going to run for Washington Secretary of state as a libertarian. He's previously ran for State representative and seemed to do pretty well

I wouldn't say throwing away vote more like incremental gain

[Andalusian girls]

can't trust libertarians, they're cat people

[Marootsoobutsu]

You could always vote Libertarian. If they get 10%? of the vote in this general they get funding and access to all 50 states next election. It's still throwing your vote away (at this point) but it could have some positive effects still. Plus Libertarians are mostly pretty cool, they're the best of rep/dem in one imo.

Libertarians aren't going to get even close to 10% of the vote. lol They probably won't even get 3% of the vote.

Edit: If history is a guide, they won't even get 1% of the vote. they've only beat that mark once, in 1980.

[Sho]

Spirit of Rand Paul be with you now and forever more, Amen.

[Cjskater]

Libertarians aren't going to get even close to 10% of the vote. lol They probably won't even get 3% of the vote.

Edit: If history is a guide, they won't even get 1% of the vote. they've only beat that mark once, in 1980.

True but if any election could make people vote 3rd party, its probably this one. There's a chance... maybe... possibly... good luck Libertarians.

[dasva]

True but if any election could make people vote 3rd party, its probably this one. There's a chance... maybe... possibly... good luck Libertarians.

Exactly. I know some at lower levels will definitely be using how broken this election cycle with the parties has been as a talking point to vote 3rd party

[notorious bum]

You should be throwing your vote to Jill Stein, if you care about continuing the convo that our friend Bernie started for many, but fell well short of articulating what is needed to break the cycles of power and corruption.

[kuronosan]

Jill comes after Bernie in view alignments but some things she says scares me with the Green Party, specifically with regards to medicine.

[Sho]

Jill comes after Bernie in view alignments but some things she says scares me with the Green Party, specifically with regards to medicine.

Actually, marijuana was on top of their issues in 2008, IIRC.

[archibaldcrane]

You should be throwing your vote to Jill Stein, if you care about continuing the convo that our friend Bernie started for many, but fell well short of articulating what is needed to break the cycles of power and corruption.

Why wouldn't you want to overturn Citizen's United?

[Gredival]

It baffles me that these are the best candidates we can muster up and each is inherently flawed from the gate

Because 1) the nation is filled with voters that flat out disagree with you about what makes a candidate good and 2) the things that makes you a good politician (nationally viable candidate) have nothing in common, and often compete, with the things that would make you an effective politician (governing).

For example, you want progress and someone committed to progressive ideals (in other words, Bernie)? Too bad, too left for the general election. (This is the mirror problem that true blood conservatives, i.e. the Cruz voters, have on the right)

You're conceiving of elections the wrong way. It's a MC test where the instructions are "Choose the Best Answer" not "Choose the Right Answer." And the answers are all imperfect by design, the trick is sorting out the level of imperfection. However unlike the SAT/GMAT/etc. there's a trick that works 90% of the time -- finding the person that has (D) next to their name.

Remember that Russ Feingold and Scott Walker come from the same freaking state. People are not decisive, consistent, or rational even down at smaller state levels.

[Gredival]

You should be throwing your vote to Jill Stein, if you care about continuing the convo that our friend Bernie started for many, but fell well short of articulating what is needed to break the cycles of power and corruption.

Lol if people in this thread were frustrated with Bernie's anti-science crap, Stein is just on another level. But I guess we'll ignore that because she beats the drum about how money is bad.